Jak to bylo s tankem č. 24

Diskuse

How was it with tank No. 24


Tank T-34/85 with tower number 24, belonging to the 63rd Guards. tank. brig. 10. gard. tank. Corps of the 4th Guards. tank. brigade (tank commander, lieutenant Ivan Grigoryevich Goncharenko, 25 years old), driver Elder Ilya Sklovsky, gunner Sergeant Pavel Batyrev, charger Sergeant Nikolai Kovrigin, assistant driver and lower gunner Sergeant Alexander Filippov . Behind him two more tanks - Lt. Leonid Burakov and Kotov (with tower numbers 23 and 25). Two tanks on the right, one on the left along the street - according to the regulations for fighting in the city. The tanks passed through the serpentine from Kadetka, at the Jelení ditch, Capt. The porridge waved and shouted, warning of the Germans in Klárov…
There was the first tank hit by him. self-propelled. Pore. Goncharenko was killed (a large shard shattered his skull), Batyrev fired and missed, the Germans fired a second time and did not intervene, in the third shot the driver Šklovský (lost his right eye) and the Czech guide František Souček (imprisoned in it for 2 years) were seriously injured. prisons, at the beginning of May 1945 he escaped and rode with Soviet tankers as a guide to Prague). The radio does not work. In the third hit, the lower shooter Filippov was injured by shrapnel. The shooter Batyrev (the only uninjured) with the charger Kovrigin was hit by a shot and set fire to him. armor. Then the fourth hit wedged the tower.
In the fierce fire of Soviet tanks, another set him on fire. armored, the two managed to disappear into the streets of Lesser Town. Mjagkov, Alexandr Davydov and Alexei Vostrikov were killed.
On the morning of May 9, the tank with tower number 23 was the first to pass the burned-out town hall.
Guards Lt. Goncharenko was buried on the same day in a mass grave in front of Rudolfinum (today's Jan Palach Square), later in the Honorary Cemetery of Owls. soldiers in Olšany cemeteries.
Remembered on a memorial plaque in Prague 1, in a niche in the rock in U Bruských kasáren Street.
But I've seen a photo of the hit tank No. 24 in several publications, but it doesn't look like that at all! Does anyone have other information?
Source: Holub Ota - Death on the Threshold of Victory (Magnet, 1975)
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#148397 Version : 0
Well, let me ask you, even though it's funny, it's not a crime against humanity, is it? That's why I'm moving this to the forum where it's more appropriate
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#148401 Version : 0
Well, so if I understand it perfectly accurately, then technically the number on IS-2 (23) in Smichov wasn't that big of a deal, because if I quote my colleague Štrupel: On the morning of 9 May, a tank with turret number 23 was the first to pass by the burnt-out town hall.
Only with the type of the donated tank the comrades from the USSR made a mistake... Laughing
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To the crowd: apologies for the misclassification of the post and thanks for the reclassification. Vladimir Strupl.
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It's cool it just happens Smile Razz
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#148437 Version : 0
Preparation of equipment for seasonal operation ("transitions") was also done on the "Smichov tank"... Because that's right, that's the way it should be...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#158001 Version : 0
Well, the comrades were of course bullshitting (as usual) the tank with the number 23 was reported as the first to arrive in Prague (not the first to drive through the Lesser Town Square), moreover, somehow they did not present that it was the only tank that was involved in the fighting in Prague and destroyed, they met probably the last Htzers with the first tank. And the whole thing is much less dramatically depicted in the book "May 1945 in the Czech lands" by Tomáš Jakl where it is described that the hit slid down the tower and hit the corner of the house in the background, while the tank commander who was looking out of the hatch was also hit. Mr. Holub's depiction is rather wild and hitting the lower gunner (correctly the gunner of the radio operator) is quite unrealistic without any noticeable marks on the tank. A piquant detail is that in 1964 when the grand celebrations of liberation were being prepared, the families of the "fallen heroes" were being searched for, because initially it was supposed to be the death of the whole crew, whereupon it turned out that 4 of the 5 members were alive (perhaps they even took part in the celebrations in 1965), and the whole subject has already been discussed here in detail, including why a tank of a different type and practically new (never used in combat) was on the monument. Just go through the older threads.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#158007 Version : 0
I found this in the book by PhDr Stanislav Kokoška Prague in May 1945, NLN Prague 2005 How do you like it?
Jak to bylo s tankem č. 24 - Kokoška Stanislav Jak to bylo v květnu 1945 NLN Praha 2005
str 166

Kokoška Stanislav Jak to bylo v květnu 1945 NLN Praha 2005
str 166

URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#158618 Version : 0
In much better quality is this photo, and another in detail of the tangential hit of the tower in the book mentioned above Smile There is no problem to put it here, the problem is copyright, by the way this one is cropped I think, because it is missing the right corner of the house hit by the shot that "licked" the turret and resulted in the death of the tank commander. The tank apparently was not (at least according to the photo) significantly damaged, whether it was able to turn after the turret hit is of course impossible to know. Unfortunately, the source of the fact that there were more than one hit is not stated anywhere, and the photos do not show (at least I never saw it) the right side of the machine, but from the position and direction of firing it does not seem that it could have been hit from the right.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#158620 Version : 0
At http://www.army.cz/scripts/detail.php?id=7191
it is possible to download a pictorial publication Fight for Freedom 1938-1945.
On pages 89 and 110 are photographs of the site of the conflict and Goncharenko 1-24.


Judging by the detailed photo in the book May 1945 in Czech lands, it also seems unlikely to me that the tank took 4 hits. Moreover, the photo on page 89 of the above mentioned publication Fighting for Freedom 1938-1945 shows that the duel took place at a relatively short distance.
However, I found another description of the fight that confirms multiple hits:
In 1995, HPM No. 3 published an article by Tomáš Jakl, Hetzers in May 1945, where the firefight at Klárovo is described as follows: " Two Hetzers were destroyed by Soviet tankers on 9 May at Klárovo in the famous skirmish, during which they lost the only tank destroyed in Prague. A T-34, probably serial number 412582, of the 1st Battalion, 63rd Tank Brigade, with the number 1-24 and the unit symbol on the turret, riding at the head of a three-man reconnaissance advance tank detachment, was hit in the turret at the mouth of Na opyši Street, killing its commander. The tank gunner returned fire and destroyed one Hetzer. However, the tank was disabled by another hit to the turret's turning mechanism and other hits, and the crew abandoned it. Then more Soviet tanks arrived and destroyed the second Hetzer."


...no matter how I look - I couldn't make out more hits from the photos than the one on the bottom edge of the turret. You can even see that there is some baggage on the plate behind the turret.


... And now, Grandma, advise.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#166611 Version : 0
Is it just my feeling, or is it?
When I compare the photos in the publication Fighting for Freedom 1938-1945 on page 89 - the out-of-focus photo across the rear of the hit Hetzer towards Goncharenko's tank, with the photo of the destroyed T-34 on page 110, I have the feeling that Goncharenko's T-34 is standing differently. It looks like it has moved (or been pushed) more to the right towards the pavement.


In all known photos so far, it was shown in a position oblique to the pavement, quite far from the hit corner of the house.
In the out-of-focus photo from a distance (page 89), he appears to be standing straight on the roadway and closer to the house. This would be consistent with the theory that the tank commander was hit by debris when a shell exploded on the house behind the tank.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#166615 Version : 0
to Kelby the first contradiction (where even Mr. Jakl has more hits) is quite clear the older article in HPM is probably based on older sources, the newer one is always the more correct one (the photos were not known before and probably based on them the number of shots was reduced). The contradiction in the way the tank is standing I think you explained yourself, if it was obstructed it was moved to the side which would explain the distance from the corner of the house when the commander should have been hit by something from the hit corner.
Thanks for the link, I didn't know this stuff.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#166624 Version : 0
to bitaxe: despite - according to the photos - the very well-preserved appearance of Goncharenko's tank, he probably took another hit(s). Several sources mention the injuries of the driver Shklovsky and the Czech guide Fr. Soucek, which could not have been caused by a slipped missile.
The close-up photo shows the "scuffed" left front corner of the hull. The machine may have been hit there, but if the missile had penetrated the armour, the driver could not have survived with only a facial injury. And the blast would have damaged the wheels on the left side - or at least the tracks.... don't know.


Different sources say from 4 to 7 hits. If that's true(which seems unlikely to me), then Goncharenko's tank would have really had a thick skin. After all, the firefight took place at 150, 200 meters tops, by my estimate.
Also the number of Hetzers in the fight varies. There were probably four. Two were left shot up at the scene of the battle and two were abandoned a short distance away. After the fight, the crews shut down their machines and fled into the streets of the Lesser Town.


Last night, I didn't give up and watched a passage depicting this battle in the film Liberation of Prague. There (seen through artistic eyes, of course) Goncharenko's tank is hit several times. Also in the film the wounded driver's face appears, etc.
However, I was intrigued that the filmmakers then used -as an adversary- a real Hetzer. It is probably the machine (ST-1) that is now standing (and supposedly already running) in Lesany
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Kelby, I'd be skeptical about the hit count. Consider that for years he was a popular communist legend and the hit count is from that era (the fact that the commander was killed by a brick wasn't "heroic" enough so it probably got painted over. After all, it was usually written about being hit by an armour-piercing bullet. The damage to the hull is not necessarily from this fight, on the contrary, since the tension wheel is not damaged it looks like the tank was damaged earlier and re-deployed after repair. And be aware that the crew probably did not expect to encounter German armour in Prague (after the end of the war), which is why the commander was riding in the turret hatch and could have been killed by the debris, even the driver probably had the hatch open and just between you and me the guide probably rode the machine outside not inside (in truth inside he would have barely fit and due to the language barrier he would have been of little use there, rather he rode outside and showed the tank which way to go (just tried to guide them not to get lost). On the other hand, the fact that today's study states a lower number of hits probably corresponds to reality, they were the last Hetzers they encountered probably by accident and the Germans were the faster ones. It's not even very clear how the two were destroyed, note that there is no mention of their crews (maybe they were machines that were already empty) but a lot of things around the whole thing are doubtful (mainly because during the Comanche era there was an artificial legend around it) but a lot of things are quite easy to explain.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Jak-to-bylo-s-tankem-c-24-t39230#166665 Version : 0
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