Podzemní továrna v Chebu

Diskuse

I'm trying to get any information about the underground factory at Cheb airport. Basically, it can be said that the only credible information is that there is something under the Cheb airport, otherwise there is some information that differs considerably. I would be grateful for any information and thank you in advance, Jirka
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#102234 Version : 0
Ludvík Souček describes the Cheb factory in the book "Secrets of the Amber Room" ... the book is already quite old, and even then L.S. writes that access is no longer blocked, access points are built up.
However, he describes the situation after the war, quite interestingly ... it's hard to say whether he was there in person or has a description from a witness.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#103016 Version : 0
Check out the Wunderwaffen forum. This factory is a popular mystery object, although it never existed. This rhyme is based on the fact that there are tunnels under the Cheb airport, used to defrost the airport area using hot air and which were built there by the Germans. Souček made her famous, but in many cases he only perfectly mystified and it is difficult to say what he invented and what he modified. My information is from a book that I quote on the aforementioned forum, there is also a mention of another popular mystery nearby, the factory above Pernink (also SZ Č), where according to mysterists everything should be from the nuclear reactor through the factory on V4-V99 to the starting platform for flying saucers, but in reality it is only a dilapidated ore processing plant, but also built by the Germans.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#103083 Version : 0
Hassen : I have Mr. Souček's book, the question is how much it can be trusted. It is true that some of the names are probably real, but nowhere can there be a mention of the Beaver Dam, even if it was secret, I think that something like that would be at least sketchy.
Aubi : That factory is there. I don't know what's there, how big it is, but in the fifties or sixties, Svazarmov divers tried to explore there, the result coincides with Mr. Souček's book - black water, visibility to three meters and a lot of iron. Our family moved to Cheb as part of the settlement sometime in 1946. My father, as a small child, crawled through the entire airport and answered my question about the factory only that if I just approached it, he would break both my legs. There is something attached in the annex, it is about 1/2 to 1 kilometer from the airport and I doubt it looks like a defrost tunnel
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#103109 Version : 0
Another small addition. They concreted the Cheb runway in the length of 1400 meters, which is 100 meters more than Ruzyně had at that time. And that was to be only the airport covered by the air repair shop
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#103117 Version : 0
Correcting: the correct title of the book is: The case of the amber room ...
But the Beaver Dam is not very related to Cheb, is it? I have the impression that the Allies found something in Greenland after the Germans, but publicly declared it a meteorological station. Which may or may not be true.
But Dönitz's speech to the cadets from Der Stürmerr should be traced somewhere, shouldn't he? There he mentions a hiding place built by the navy for the Führer.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#104165 Version : 0
Hasen it like you mean it? So that the Navy will build a secret hideout and its commander will talk about it in a speech which is also published in the newspaper? Then where is the secret?
As for Greenland or Svalbard, there were really meteorological stations (not only German) and the idea of building secret hiding places (at least for those who think) encounters a few problems, such as when they began to build, until 1943 the Germans won the war and had no the reason, they probably barely managed to do it later (if you want to think about Antarctica, for example) is one more problem that most "mystery enthusiasts" don't think about, how would such a shelter somewhere in the wastelands be supplied in the event of a lost war? After all, there are many more similar "mistakes" in those mysteries.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#104174 Version : 0
Personally, I would say that the Bieberdamm or something was just a way to raise morale a little so that the soldiers would fight for a while longer, allowing better conditions for peace negotiations than that it would exist. And so it is with most of the secret weapons that Hitler promised that were to be used, but although they were to be so perfect and omnivorous, no one noticed them.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#104179 Version : 0
1. Der Stürmer was one of the most disgusting slices among Nazi newspapers. I would trust this newspaper with a date on the front page as much as possible. Otherwise, it's pornographic-anti-Jewish shit.
So even if it was there, they could just make it up. After all, I doubt that Dönitz would have fun with them.


2. Even if Dönitz said that, it still may not be true. It could be about the support of morality, etc.


3. As bitaxe says, the problem is how it would be supplied.


4. The theories that the Americans arrived and were defeated, so they set sail and left it alone, achich ouvej, perhaps it is not even possible to pronounce without laughter. A little about naval routes and bases, it would be difficult for the Americans and the British to keep the Nazi base: wink: And if they sank something beautifully, it would certainly only increase the US interest in gaining this hypothetical weapon: wink: And today it would certainly be known.


5. Rather, the wish is the father of the idea and it is useful for someone to create a mystery around a normal thing - either he enjoys it, or he sees the possibility of profit in it (from books about it Smile). Such a tin centrifuge on a larger scale. It's just that the Nazis kept it secret, invented some propaganda bullshit, the winners then took it all away, and as the Cold War began, it began to be kept secret again. And that secrecy is the breeding ground for these conjectures, because by its nature it cannot be verified: wink:


Which is no doubt that many Nazi or Soviet or Western archives from the Cold War do not come as many surprises, but these things always require maximum caution.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#104182 Version : 0
Those real things and technologies were, of course, extracted and used by both parties (jet engines, liquid rockets ...) then there is only nonsense about what was ever considered (at the level of death rays and similar nonsense) similarly, anyone could take a newspaper from the 60's (in the USSR before) and according to them, the socialist camp would also be ruled by amazing technology and powerful knowledge, I just somehow missed where the hell they were. A lot of German research ended up finding that it just doesn't work, but they are still a mystery (for example, infrasound weapons)
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#104189 Version : 0
for bitaxe: I'm not saying that I know that the Germans built something in Greenland ... just that I read information about Dönitz's speech, in which he allegedly mentioned Kriegsmarine's pride, that she was allowed to build a base for the Füfrer / he didn't say, of course where! /, Stürmer printed a piece, whose editor-in-chief allegedly disappeared immediately ... I meant that the article should go somewhere in the archives. I don't know when it should have come out, but I think it can be found out.


But the base in Antarctica and the defeated army of Admiral Bird ... that's coffee for me too ... I'd be willing to accept something smaller in Greenland, but probably not Antarctica.
However, the Nazi escapes are a real thing, and for example, no one doubts the "dense" route to South America. For example, about the German "colonies" there, there were many "testimonies" and stories.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#104299 Version : 0
Hasen, the "colonies" in South America are more proof that nothing much was going on. The Germans moved to America (and North) long before AH, many of them anchored there before WWI, others in the 1920s. The fact that in an environment where the locals were somewhat "behind" and they were quite successful is quite normal, the fact that they gathered in groups is normal, I think too. Escapes to these countries (mainly to Paraguay) were organized (surprisingly) only after the war and quite logically used the existing German groups (as well as the regimes that were in favor of them). Contrary to romantic ideas, they were not submarines sailing on a dark night, but much simpler, simply by ship like ordinary passengers. Moreover, it was possible only after the war. It was never possible to find any base built during the war to hide the "tips", those who got there were usually the second set. So if we accept the chimeric theory of "bases", it is strange that none have ever been found, those acquaintances (and would probably build for them) did not even try to go to them, on the contrary, they usually tried to hide among the civilian population.
By the way, there is quite a difference between "narration" and "testimony" in mystery books and reality Smile
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#104310 Version : 0
hi Kerbi I live in the lower courtyards and as you probably know the factory is in the upper courtyards I have enough things I found in the Germans. And I will tell you this at the airport. . there was a hangar in the upper courtyards and it is currently reconstructed in Kbelich, there is also an airport, it is currently used by the local association of aero clubs. explored underground airports were supposed to make aircraft there jumo engines, etc. They made the aircraft for sure because the photos go out bombed pieces of disassembled aircraft. in the courtyards, I think that's exactly the name of the aviation school for aeronautics. about cabbage what? if you agree then I'll give you the number is in the profile, go there and then see each other and then call me on Saturday here in Cheb alias in Dvory
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#119403 Version : 0
I've heard a lot about the air "underground factory, but about 90 percent of the total delusions. There's some kind of underground there, there are underground tanks for fuel and hydraulic fluid, in which cracks formed after the Allied's flight and so water got there. So here. There are also underground collectors in which there was all technological distribution, here they could probably have been diving as well, but otherwise the city of Cheb awarded Mr. Matejick grand for the airport research a total of 50,000, the research is over and awaiting the results measured georadar.


Unfortunately, a lot of delusion also appeared in the Books as from Mr. Vladar's Last Action and he mentions the system of heating ducts under the airport.


As I will know something more, write it here at mar.sa@centrum.cz
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129271 Version : 0
Same thing again, gentlemen, right? Who doesn't want to hear-doesn't hear, who doesn't want to see-doesn't see ... You don't hear Mr. Hoffmann ... or would you rather consider him a fantastic, even if he reports as a witness? Well, you'd better stay in your blind faith that the Germans didn't have more than your imagination ready, and believe the post-war theses of the winners ... who, of course, have benefited from German inventions ever since ... and also, of course, obscure the way they go. ... "glory to them, right?" ... Well ... glory to you .. Smile))
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129442 Version : 0
Hasen: Of course the Germans had a plan, but that's the problem - the plan. On the one hand, Lecos was nonsense, and on the other hand, they simply did not have time to bring those meaningful things to any usable stage. If they were so supergenius, as you suggest, why didn't they win the war? Any conspiracy? According to some witnesses, every hole in the country on the border is a secret German factory, but that does not say that it is true. The fact that there was a guarded building somewhere that might have used the local branch of a concentration camp as a source of labor does not mean that it is automatically a secret weapons factory. It could simply have been warehouses, or, because in the Ore Mountains there have always been deposits of any ore, just a mine or an ore processing plant. The fact that there are tunnels under the airport also does not necessarily mean anything. By the way, below the Cheb castle is a network of tunnels, allegedly leading into the underground realm of Agartha ... As is the case with any other tunnels under the old towns, and they were also allegedly examined by a commando from Ahnenerbe. And no matter how hard the mystery scientists are, even though they are freely accessible, they have never found anything there. don't underestimate the power of human imagination and whispering, someone heard something from someone sixty years ago, and today he is 100 percent convinced that he saw it with his own eyes. Memory also does ugly tricks.
May I say the same to your address again, sir? Who wants to see, will see exactly what he wants ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129449 Version : 0
But ... I agree with you ...: -))) ... It's always about what I can rely on with my own experience, my own study, my own experience and the power of my own feeling ... Of course, it is always good on the spot .. well I don't want to say skepticism .. rather a passion for neutrality ... but most importantly the desire to know the reality is important ... And so I had the opportunity in life to know that what many people laugh / precisely because that they failed to pass on their old views / ... is ultimately a fact. So the fact ... There were so many German secret underground spaces ... they had, of course, a huge number of purposes ... yes, even for ordinary warehouses ... Do you even know how many canned weapons remained underground only in Böhmen und Mähren? .. To this day? It is precisely that ... that the thinking of today's people is completely out of the realm of German philosophy in the first half of the last century ... And so don't be surprised ... "versions ... And of course I'm not a Nazi ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129457 Version : 0
Hasen, if apart from the misty and mysterious nonsense of would-be witnesses there is something tangible, I will be happy to believe it. Until then, I will keep my skepticism, so far it has always worked. The fact that there is a hole in the ground means nothing but just that it is a hole in the ground. And, surprisingly, witnesses remember the farther they are from the event in time. Witnesses who suffocated as they assembled the Me-262 near our airport and then flew "climbed through this forest" told details that even the head of the operation would not know. Surprisingly, it turned out that the airport during the war had the area routed differently, in the object in question were made components for gearboxes and the airport recorded a single landing Me-262 (emergency) because there were never "turbines" as witnesses said. So I just don't take similar things and I take various bases in Antarctica UFOs and other crap (I don't think of another word for that) about as seriously as Snow White or a good communist.
By the way, it looks interesting when you make more dots in the text, but you can't read it.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129469 Version : 0
Well ... why not? Who does not want to read the dots ... does not read them: -)))) ... But perhaps the topic is not about dots, but about the history of World War II ... Of course, just today it is happy to confirm that it was not, that what was ... Most people-proud materialists: -))) ... are glad inside that the world is simple, and some things beyond their ability to think ... they just can't exist ... even if they were hundreds of witnesses ... It would disturb their so well-organized world ... in which maybe ... German disk planes have nothing to do, do they? And like Foo fighters ... that ... well, poor pilots ... what do they come up with, right? Poor allies ... their pilots were probably psychopaths Smile))
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129475 Version : 0
Well, I have a feeling that psychopaths are more like those who are still looking for the disk planes Smile surprisingly, it is still not found (but feel free to look for them) the catch is that when someone sees something for a few seconds at a distance of hundreds and thousands of meters and then it is able to tell in detail what the thing looked like so don't be angry with him I don't believe much. Have you ever tried to look at 500 meters on a plane and then draw some details? Maybe it would be worth trying someday (even if it disrupts your dream and imaginary world) And materialism. try not to eat for two days, for example it will lead you to the fact that the materialism is not so bad (because what is food but desolate materialism that spoils mental processes Smile) The philosophizing about nothing allows you that the materialists care somewhere that you can eat and sleep in peace.
And if you believe in those wonderful German projects, why has nothing ever been found that goes far beyond what was on the other side. The Germans lagged far behind in the development of jet engines because they did not have materials, although they worked on the arrow wing but did not get it in reality, the tanks were similar to allies in submarines. Where are the revolutionary things that the world champions came up with? Apart from the fact that they got a liquid-fuel rocket into operation, they didn't show much. So what do you deduce from them that they were so ahead in development (materialistic, by the way) when there is no evidence of it. The fact that you do not learn about a similar phase of development on the part of the Allies is quite logical, their construction continued to work and the projects were completed (thanks to the reduction of priorities, although a little later, but quite normally). So why look for German sages for every stupidity? Feel free to philosophize and write the dots (I'll just stop reading it) it's your problem, but try to put things about war and history on the server about war and history, not things without a real basis (or prove those things)
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129483 Version : 0
All right, dear bitax ... you know, I don't want to weed out this great server for me ... with some empty verbal disagreements / that Admin would be happy for us, right? ... / ... Well ... of course as a historian, I can't even agree with you on the dot: -))) ... Don't you guys know / sorry to poke / ... that, for example, the construction of the submarine XXIII and XXI ... has become a model for the whole world ... and to have it The Germans used to cut Allied convoys like butter ... sonar nesonar ... Of course, it is clear to everyone that it is good that Nazism did not win ... after all, there were people in Germany who meant well with Germany and sacrificed for even life ... But most of all ... you won't get me fictional stories about some German troops or soldiers ... that never happened, what propaganda invented ... I studied quite a lot ... maybe you too, but I feel your strong bias ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129488 Version : 0
Interesting that the types you are talking about had the Germans already in 1944 and they could not do much with them (probably the sonar, hedgehog and other things worked better) Otherwise you will be surprised but they did not become a model for the whole world (used by the French and Soviets) the Americans continued to build their own designs Smile and unlike you, I "study" it for about a decade longer and (probably also unlike you) in real life (not just in a book) on several of those "famous submarines" I was Smile (my relative served at HECHT Smile which caused me quite a problem) and I would quite recommend the experience to you Smile well and especially I approach the matter very technically and without who is the right one (about that for you I strongly doubt) Do you think that Lidice is propaganda, or Babi Jar, or Oradour? I would say that I lost a lot of time with your nonsensical idea, feel free to believe in clever Germans and their secret weapons, their philosophical greatness and similar nonsense, such nonsense is not worth dealing with.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129490 Version : 0
Well .. somehow I don't understand some of your conclusions ... but of course I like to be taught where you verified things ... Let's leave those submarines ... it was really the Germans who gave the world the model of classic submarines ... if you wanted to deny it, so I don't know ... And in general ... The Germans were able to fight the whole world ... with their limited resources ... Understand ... I don't defend their policy, or even Nazism ... I'm just putting on a bowl of scales that ... their technique ... was really the best in the world / who is a technician, knows how better German tanks needed to be ... and just why ... KV and T-34 only balanced the fight for a while .. Stg 3 easily played with them, for example ... / ... I believe you, sir, that you are an expert, otherwise you would not be here ... but believe me ... I also understand the second war a bit ... I studied a lot ... And so we will certainly not be angry with each other ... we just see it from our own angle ... Smile))
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129494 Version : 0
So I registered on this server with the knowledge that I know someone who is interested in the history of the airport in Cheb, but it seems to me that I found myself among fairy tales and people looking for Damn Atlantis, I do not know how Dear to explain that Cheb airport is not mysterious 3 storey semi-flooded factory. Well, the basement there is not as large as they say, because if it was as big as some of you say, then perhaps someone from around the people would have to notice something, even when the car is hauling the excavated soil.


There are underground reservoirs, then some administrative space run by the airport, another room where the sheets were soaked in a salt bath, then another space, but it is not up to me to tell me anything about the research carried out by Mr. Matejicek, thanks to Mr. Matejick I understood what the airport looked , so wait until the book on the History of Cheb Airport is published, perhaps the truth and evidence will be substantiated
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129501 Version : 0
it Hasen if you want to talk sensibly we can (rather somewhere else, here it belongs to other things). I would be in favor of tapping (I personally have no problem with that) The one who gave the world a submarine is also quite different than stated in our country (the Germans were not Smile) Similarly, you can argue about the quality of tanks and other things if you we really have to talk about it either it would be appropriate SZ or starting a topic somewhere with this topic (it could be interesting.


I have to agree, I unfortunately usually look for "something mysterious" behind everything, even though it usually turns out to be ordinary spaces.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129548 Version : 0
Well ... of course, it's a matter of his own knowledge ... of the extent to which he could know something ... Of course, today it's impossible to know the depths of the Cheb factory ... when a layman walks there ... here and there. .. Smile But it's not even about the Cheb factory, and it's useless to argue about it ... It was originally about the sacramentally progressive technologies of Germany ... and it's not about the fact that they were the ones to bring it to a victorious end. .. After all, type XXI submarines still sail as a model for all submarines, German tanks are a model of today's tanks ... rumors about Russian kites --- German nebelverfer have long crushed Russian men ... and I'm not talking about cartridges filled with liquid air ... which infuriated the Russians by threatening a gas war ... and the Wehrmacht abandoned the use of this weapon on the Eastern Front ... rather ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129592 Version : 0
it's Hasen again you're wrong, this is about an underground factory in Cheb, not about German fantasies. All you have to do is bother and look at the name of the forum.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129622 Version : 0
Smile)) Yes ...
I admit ... I got carried away ... it's a factory in Cheb Smile))


I really studied things in general / around mysteries /, when I count it ... for about 35 years ... And not only did I study ... also practically in the field ... I used to be a ufologist, feel free to laugh ... definitely will not testify to objectivity ... And to tell the truth ... I didn't know all those decades ... but I just wanted to know ... I studied many cases from books ... here in the Czech Republic I talked to many witnesses .. .
Today I am convinced that there are no aliens in the rockets ... but that the Germans tried the discs ... yes ...
I'm convinced of Victor Schauberger's engine ... his son testified today ... how they tested a flying disc in a factory hall ... And after the war ... who knows, it was ... Why did the bag rupture just at this time about the testimony of seeing discs ...
Well ... I don't force it on anyone ... everyone only has what they have, right?


And it's the same with the underground spaces that the Germans built ... When someone wants to believe that they are just rumors ... let them believe it ... I don't take it from him Smile))


Major Hasen
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129771 Version : 0
It is interesting that normal aircraft (even quite interesting prototypes) have preserved a pile of only no disks (if I do not count Sack) was not found anywhere, it is the same with the "mysterious underground". Until something tangible is at hand, such as solid photos (not something smudged somewhere in the distance), you probably won't convince a lot of people with your faith. After all, there is a separate topic for similar "mysterious" projects. This is about a specific location near Cheb (probably not very mysterious).
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#129780 Version : 0
to Hasen - I don't want to be interested, I have finally said my thing about the alleged underground factory in Cheb. But I'm more interested in something else now. Your belief in the all-inventing genius of the Germans. You remind me a little of my childhood magic book about Soviet inventors: wink :. There, in the 1950s, they taught us insider that everything in the world was first invented by the Russians, then forgotten, and reinvented by someone else. Including a magical story about a Russian inventor who invented a diesel engine half a century before the West and cleverly named it a "Russian design" in a patent. : idea: Don't believe everything you want to believe !. It's a bit like holy faith - I believe it, that's why it has to be true. It doesn't have to, and that's the beauty.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#133062 Version : 0
aubis I have the book at home Smile the best is how Jabločkov invented the light bulb (including the thread) and how an Edison stole it from a Russian cruiser that was visiting the USA and copied it Smile really magical reading.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#133107 Version : 0
it's bitaxe - Unfortunately, I lost my own, so I have only tender memories left. It just jumped at Hasen's apologies of Germanic genius. : idea:Exclamation In addition, everyone knows that everything, but really everything was discovered by the greatest Czech genius Jára Cimrman. : wink:: shock:
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#133217 Version : 0
My children bought me here shortly after the coup, it is the original copy, sometime in the early 1990s a reissue was published. It's really not enough to wonder how ingenious the Russians were and where they finally brought it Smile It's a fact that they invented the velocipede, the submarine electric current ... just almost everything that can be remembered, but they secretly kept their discoveries secret from the world Smile
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#133249 Version : 0
to bitaxe - I beg, I beg. Couldn't you write more details about the book? I would engage my bookseller. It's a chic, he can get something - even an older one -
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#133286 Version : 0
I would quite like to help you, but I have the original edition, the new one could have been named a little differently. But I'll take a look at home and try to ask. The daughter is at school with a focus on the bookstore, so maybe she will find out something as well.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#133288 Version : 0
Hi: D ...
If I could get to you again Smile ... just a little nice note ...
After all, there are many things that the Germans have overtaken the whole world in ... you can officially read ... it's nothing secret ...
And what the Western Allies and the Russians still have reason to keep secret ... there is no reason to deny that ...
The example of submarines ... I did not talk about who gave the world submarines ... everyone knows how great the French beginnings of electric submarines were ... But the Germans perfected diesel-electric submarines ... and that they did not reverse the naval war, their world models XXI and XXIII was, after all, that they could be deployed just before the surrender ... After all, their first was that they were faster below the surface than on the surface ... older submarines could not do that. In the same way, for example, German P-IVs were faster in the field than T-34s ... as witnesses still living testify ...
But it's just useless arguing: D ... And I don't want to argue ...
But how, for example, are American "invisible planes" of the self-wing type ... about which they proudly present films about American inventors ... related to German Horten / Gotha / aircraft ... the remnants of which have been preserved?
It's a matter of objectivity: lol:
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#134280 Version : 0
He can't tell me: or is it related to Northrop, which has been involved with them for almost as long as Horteni? Really, it's a matter of objectivity. The wing is an old thing from the 1920s, and surprisingly, today's Stealthy may have almost nothing to do with you, probably meant Ho 229. You can compare both companies (plus Lippische) for example at www.nurflugel.com. Northrop even started with gliders four years before Horteni.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#134324 Version : 0
[quote = "Kerbi"] I'm trying to get any information about the underground factory at Cheb airport. Basically, it can be said that the only credible information is that there is something under the Cheb airport, otherwise there is some information that differs considerably. I would be grateful for any information and thank you in advance, Jirka Confused:
Well, I will try to write what I know, I hope it helps. I'm also from Cheb and the airport and the factory has always been closest to our boys' expeditions, it's been more than 35 years since we went there looking for what we could and tried to find something. We found the remains of the equipment of the Germans and the Americans. The area and areas were full and you could find a lot of things just the entrance! But we discovered something interesting, something like huge underground tanks, they are circular rooms with a diameter of 20m, descend the stairs, but only about a meter and then it's just dirty stinky water. They're probably old tanks. I looked where I could, I was also a member of Svazarm at several events and met people who did something they knew more. A certain Mr. Merta / unfortunately he is already dead / he searched and he knew about Cheb Airport most of all, he even kept detailed notes. I talked to him many times about it, I know that there are 3 entrances in total !! One escape is somewhere under the Jesenice dam, the other is buried, it stands on it dn es houses in Podhrad and the main one is walled up in HDB. According to his findings and also mine / I found a lot of witnesses / covers and cladding for V1 were made here, everything was taken along the old line through Slapany, not through Cheb to France. This factory produced only components for aircraft, wings, additional tanks, etc. This factory is also related to the secrets of the research center in Dolní Žandov / it is the pioneer camp just off the main road in M.Lázeň /. This is also a big question mark, the Germans had laboratories there , they claimed that there was a camp for prisoners, but hot water was flowing everywhere and they were drowning in the quarters ... I know that from the local people who were there and searched right after the war.
I personally talked to several people, even with Mr. František Krž / + 2001 /, who as a fireman on a locomotive, was totally deployed in Germany, arrived with the last train to Cheb, before the huge raid. The whole train remained underground airport, there only a German train driver and two soldiers were allowed to ride, he remained in the guard house when he started the raid, remembered that he hid in the nearby bushes and then ran towards Háje and in the woods near Zelená Hora he came to the Americans with them and came later to Cheb, where he helped them. He then stayed here at RG, later working as a train driver on the track.
I also know how the search in the underground turned out by Svazarmov divers, they were mostly divers of the then UK ... there was a lot of talk that it was mined and so everyone was afraid .. because there was nothing to see then the order to wall up and watch !!
I don't know if I helped you with my little bit, but I know something. If you're looking, I'll be happy to help, I have some contacts ..
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#134325 Version : 0
I am very interested in this topic about the Cheb factory. Although I only know about what I learned here, I was so interested that I would start looking for more information.
Otherwise, the discussion between bitaxe and Hasen also intrigued me. I'm not in favor of some fantasizing about the secret German bases that were supposed to save the Third Reich, but you have to admit that they did something in the development of new weapons. They had a number of promising projects that did not only gain ground on the battlefield (both because of material needs and because the complexes needed to implement them were taken over by the Allies). This is not to say that any of those projects would change the outcome of the war. I attribute the fact that there is no basis for them to the fact that everything that could fall into the hands of the Allies was being destroyed. (By "projects" I don't mean any photon cannons or other fairy-tale nonsense.)
I am quite interested in armored vehicles from WWII and I definitely do not think that the Allied tanks will match the quality of the German ........ for bitaxe: D
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#141455 Version : 0
Paulie Kneys sometimes try to use his head to think about how you explain that what is known today (such as the development of jets, submarines) has been preserved documentation that it is still not cataloged and about the "amazing technologies" surprisingly do not write people who had to participate but only second class? After the war, these German scientists gladly switched to the winners and happily sold their ideas on better terms than those in Germany at the time. W. in Braun is just the tip of the iceberg, as part of the Allied actions, both documentation and "brains" were taken away and believe that they tried to get citizenship in their new homeland. So faith in flying saucers, bases and similar nonsense is really just faith Sad those who do not think logically.
And to those tanks, the last German tanks were (unfortunately for you) worse than the Allied. M-26 or IS-2 were clearly better than the German King Tiger (his armor was considered bad by the Germans, because it was worse than the Tiger I due to lack of alloying additives and low quality of production) on other things such as manual rotation of the towers for PzIV (lack of copper for electric motors) and other energy saving programs, not to mention. It is necessary to be interested in the matter deeper than just the level of memories of some Nazi remembering "our amazing ..." For example, the famous Me 262 (described as an amazing machine) was not able to make sharp turns (there was destruction of the wing) and its engines Jumo had a lifespan of 10 - 15 hours (then the tin shovels left) just a lot of good and interesting ideas (here you can only bow before what they did) but simply the lack of economic base.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#141497 Version : 0
I do not deny that after the war, almost everyone who helped the Nazis was grateful for the new citizenship. And it is common knowledge that German scientists gladly and willingly cooperated with the Soviets, or with the Americans. : lol:
I only object that not all Germans were just gossipers and came to some results in their research. 262 was a very advanced design, even though the first generation of Jumo and BMV engines had very large flies (problems with reaching the speed of sound during a slight descending flight or dive flight were not resolved, but above all it was not a fighter for maneuver combat)
And of course the Russian tanks could compete with the German ones, which lacked speed and maneuverability (not counting the Pz Kpfw IV), but I certainly don't think they would be better. In each book, you will read the testimonies of Allied soldiers who felt respect for the German armor. I doubt they made it up. German tanks had better armament and stronger armor. Tigre II covered 180mm armor at 500m. Not even an IS-2 with a larger caliber cannon could do that, let alone an M-26. This results in a greater effective range, Ivani had to come closer and were more vulnerable.
I have to admit your truth about the lack of raw materials and the resulting insufficient quality of connections (they made up for it with technological processing): wink:
Yeah, and sometimes I try to think with my head ...... it's not that bad: D
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#141518 Version : 0
If you have managed the first step (ie thinking Smile) start looking for real data, for example news from test centers (for example, those from Kubinka can be found quite on the net - you just have to know Russian) both Russian and American (the German ones are probably also you may find it) you may be surprised how it differs from the narration of theorists Smile or "memories" of witnesses after years (for example about how the Germans fought with IS-3 Smile) The Russians managed to shoot Tiger II on the polygon and IS during the war he was not shot from the front, but the armor cracked and the tank was destroyed after the first impact of a 122 mm projectile (simply the weight times the speed will give something). Of course, even the American cannon (but not ZiS -3) covered the hips. So what's better is quite controversial, relying on witnesses or "comparators" of parameters is very tricky, because there is no standard way to measure things, so when an American and a Russian state the same parameters, it does not necessarily mean that they are the same, nowhere is it stated what was shot (the quality of the lined board). And unfortunately, the Me 262 was really not very fighter, it was more of an overflow machine, moreover with a short time in combat (only about 30 minutes) so it was not such an amazing era (after all, Mr. Maňák, who flew both Me 262 and Meteora when asked he did not hesitate for a second, according to him, the British type was better in all parameters) and similarly, when you start looking, it turns out that the "technological superiority of the Germans" is quite doubtful, rather they were able to use their machines better tactically.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#141617 Version : 0
I think that the war is primarily about making the most of my knowledge from combat and research. Although the Germans did not always succeed (262 fighter-bomber), with advanced weapons they achieved much better results than the Allies (to some extent it was due to the hopeless situation at the front), they were able to use them (try to find a list of successful WWII jet es, many allies among you won't find them).
Meteor ... it's mainly about which version Mr. Maňák flew with. Mk. I certainly did not surpass 262 in all parameters (he also had his flies, for example: engines, problems with ailerons .....) I do not want to underestimate the British express, but still its development continued after the war.
Otherwise, I have to agree with you that comparing things on the basis of old statements is questionable (each party considered their products to be "the best ...") Likewise on the basis of statistics, but at least some data. -Otherwise, we couldn't argue with anyone today ........: D
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#141693 Version : 0
Mr. Maňák flew on version III and perhaps IV, both on after the war in 1946, as well as on Me 262 (respectively CS 92) Mk. As far as I know, it was not deployed in combat, so its comparison with the Me 262 is nonsense. The fact that the Allies had enough "classic" machines allowed them not to deploy jets that did not mature into deployment, the only meteor was just deployed in small numbers since the turn of 1944/45 (only a few squadrons had it operationally. es they didn't Smile if you only counted the victories achieved on them, in addition, the pilots had considerable problems with them and a lot of them fell without having any chance to shoot. (it is not very encouraging to think in combat how much gas I can add so that the engine does not catch me with flame Sad)
In general, everyone needed the same time for development, but the Germans were predominantly allies to deploy many things without proper testing (problems such as the Panthers at the beginning of the deployment are well known) The fact that many of their ideas were very interesting is a fact, but nothing they are written about in "mysterious" articles. He can always make me laugh when I read how the Germans in Antarctica had a developmental base - the author usually doesn't realize that the researchers would also have to eat, drown and receive material. This is a problem even if it is on a similar basis a little bit and not over half the globe and still over the sea clearly controlled by the enemy. However, they still live there from the air and develop flying saucers Smile That's why I'm quite allergic to similar nonsense (otherwise it can't be called that) and the idea that the Germans had miraculous success in terms of weapon design is a bit bordering on it, in reality it is so that the weapons constructed before the war were at a solid level, but gradually the level decreased as it was necessary to hurry, save and simplify production so that it can handle even the skilled workers.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#141719 Version : 0

This post has not been translated to English yet. Please use the TRANSLATE button above to see machine translation of this post.

...a co ty katapultovací lodě(mimochodem vůbec první letadlové lodě),které vystřelovaly hydroplány ze kterých byly vystřelovány harpuny na označení teritoria ??? to je zdokumentované ...minimálně to že němci měli zájem o toto území ..
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#217780 Version : 0
orsic: somehow I don't understand you, the first aircraft carriers? The first aircraft carriers were created during the First World War and just after it. If you come across Antarctica, then the Schwabenland, which researched it for the Germans, and which you think of, was an absolutely dozen ships with an onboard seaplane, of which there were hundreds around the world at that time (1938). The fact that the Germans were interested in this territory does not prove anything, the English and others were also interested in similar territories, and they did not develop any superweapons there. according to the most realistic theory yet in Antarctica, the Germans were looking for suitable places for a whaling base so that they would not rely on foreign supplies of glycerin from whale oil.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#217781 Version : 0
well, well .. that's what I was talking about .. a probable theory ...


and what about high jump operations ???


a few details here:
[url] http://www.south-pole.com/p0000150.htm [/url]


also here:


[url] www.bibliotecapleyades.net [/url]


how was it ??? what was behind this operation? is it a myth or a snippet of truth?


..ono you can simply argue that it's bullshit but I don't think it will be that simple ..
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#217789 Version : 0
I'll just tell you this, because I don't know much about this operation:
1) Operation Highjump probably took place
2) if so, it was probably a normal expedition that was to name something after someone and close some of the sites before the Russians did it.
3) they certainly did not chase the Nazis or UFOs
4) no Nazis destroyed it.
5) mystic scientists are able to make a mystery out of anything, see the electromagnetic bending of light in the Manhattan project (physically impossible from a physical point of view) and declare it true because it is impossible.
This is what common sense tells me.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#217829 Version : 0
Once again (and I hope for the last time) I return to this dementia. It has been discussed many times here and elsewhere, Operation Highjump was a normal operation caused by training new recruits from the war and there were enough ships for which there was suddenly no use, so they were used to map Antarctica and the training took place (also in the mentioned pages it is mentioned) The fact that an accident occurs in Antarctica is not caused by secret Nazi bases but simply by the weather, Searching for every thing similar is simply nonsense.
And now for the "mystery" from a slightly different barrel, if we accept the (purely hypothetically) existence of a base in Antarctica, try to imagine how the Germans probably got construction materials, food and heating for the crew, fuel for the machines (if research is to be done) or god forbid, building something has to be driven by something) and finally for those dreamy discolours. How did those thousands of tons of material get from blocked Germany to Antarctica? Please try to explain and prove it, if you can't do this, go with your nonsense where the sun doesn't shine. Gossiping about chimerical "projects" is fun for individuals who can't put things into context. It would be enough to look at the supply of any polar expedition that is there for a year, usually it's just a handful of people and ensuring their survival is quite a problem, the idea of a large group and a few years is quite out of place, a big problem was to maintain a German meteo base in Svalbard and it had only a mini-crew and was mainly close and in much more acceptable conditions. The idea of building Schwabenland is similar to the idea of bases in the jungles of South America, until the turn of 1943/44 there was no reason for that, later there was no time. Maybe it would be worth thinking a little and dreaming less without contact with reality.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#217910 Version : 0
Well, I didn't learn much about the underground factory from the last posts ... Sad So I surfed a bit and I found out that a book by Luďek Matějíček - Cheb Wings, World of Wings 2006 () was published last year .. .history of the World War II aircraft factory Flugzeugwerk Eger ) .Did you read it?


Here are a few links:
http://www.vrtulnik.cz/protektorat2.htm (only two branches)
http://www.ulc.ngi.cz/clanky/Historie.pdfpod
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#217969 Version : 0
an interesting article I came across regarding the issue of bases in Antarctica ...
however, don't wait for a UFO!
[url =] tajomstva.org [/url]
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261579 Version : 0
Sorry, the only thing about the secret Antarctic Nazi base and what I'm taking is this:


www.youtube.com
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261584 Version : 0
aha that's how it was ...: lol:
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261611 Version : 0

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No já tedy nevidím co by článek přinášel nového, je to celkem běžná kompilace kterých je na podobné téma celá řada, sice patří k těm trochu lepším, ale přesto jsem se málem neudržel a smíchy jsem si málem krůpnul když jsem si přečetl : "Exploze dostatečné velikosti mohla vytvořit teplou frontu. Země se mohla dostatečně ohřát pro vytvoření srážek. S největší pravděpodobností se oblasti, jež po tisíce, možná miliony let neviděly vodu, pokryly sněhem a krajina se významně změnila." To je buď natolik blbý překlad, nebo je autor na cestě do blázince. Představa jak exploze (byť vělká) změní počasí natolik že dojde k zalednění (v období měsíců maximálně jednotek roků) je jak z knížek o tom jak "poručíme větru dešti". Ostatně opět narážíme na to co si většina podobných článků nepřipouští, tedy na problémy logistiky (němci budující základnu kde následně probíhá mohutný výzkum asi staví tu základnu z bobků tučňáků, a jedí lišejník) navíc nějak si autoři neuvědomují že utíkat do Antarktidy by bylo celkem k ničemu, pokud by na konci války někdo utíkal ponorkou, měl na výběr o dost lepší země kde se mohl schovat, například i několikrát zmíněnou Argentinu. Ostatně je zajímavé že odhalení zločinci (a je jich docela dost) utíkali docela prozaicky tedy přes pozemní hranice a často docela dlouho po válce, o tom že by se někde vylodili z ponorky není jediný důkaz (třeba jen muži z posádky zmíněné ponorky, kteří by neměli důvod se skrývat a spíše by měli snahu vrátit se k rodinám). Hezký blábol je i 40 letadel Heinkel s doletem 7000 mil (tedy asi 11 000km)nějak moc nedokážu najít který typ (nejen Heinkel) který by měl podobný dolet, He 177 který by asi jediný alespoň vzdáleně naplňoval představu 40 strojů měl dolet sotva poloviční a o náletu na NY si mohl nechat jen zdát (dolet 5600km tedy asi 3000 mil by na cestu tam a zpět rozhodně nestačil), o cestách třeba do antarktidy už může autor jen snít, němci ale v celku nestavěli krom prototypů dálkové stroje, takže těch 40 kusů je hezký blábol, nic víc. Podobné je to s ponorkami XXI, o kterých se bájí na počátku, řada těchto lodí byla potopena bez nějakých "zázračných" prostředků a v době jejich nasazení už němci ponorkovou válku prohráli, na rozdíl od autorových představ, nejde o mechanické srovnání parametrů, ale o to že množství lodí na straně spojenců už bylo tak velké (jak lodí nákladních tak doprovodných) že i kdyby byly nové typy úspěšné (což díky doprovodům moc nebyly) ke změně v přepravě by nedošlo. Článek je prostě další z řady blábolů na podobné téma.
Aubiho odkaz je asi "vědečtější" než to co vyplodil autor a překladatel toho článku. Po pravdě sotva mne někdo přesvědčí o pravdách typu "na mapách Piriho Reise" je cosi, jde o jednu mapu, a po pravdě antarktida na ní není, vyprávěnky jak jde o pohled "z družice" nad středomořím a to že mapa je podle "snímku" jsou dost mimo (tak to prezentují ufonadšenci) v reálu tam krom právě toho středomoří je už jen kus Afriky a Evropy, ostatně kdyby měli pravdu, ti ufouni, tak z téhle polohy (tedy nad středomořím) není na antarktidu vidět, stačí pokus s globusem Sad Po pravdě u asi tak 95% procent "senzací" stačí jen trochu přemýšlení, případně jednoduchý pokus a je po senzaci. Podobně zde.
Opět bych se zeptal, proč by někdo budoval základnu kdesi v Antarktidě ? Jak by ji zásoboval? Pokud zde byla, jak to že ji dodnes nikdo neobjevil? (mocnosti si šly 50 let po krku a jak rusové tak amíci projezdili zemi kde se dalo). Je to podobné jako s bláboly o zázračných německých letounech které létali několikrát rychleji než zvuk, proč se to co němci dokázali za války už potom nepovedlo za těch 60 let? Prostě blábol je dále blábolem byť se odkazuje na reálie, odkazy ale vedou na věci nikým nezpochybňované (třeba na data expedic před a po válce) naopak je směšná snaha o to že by "z diplomatických důvodů" byly zastírány incidenty mezi třeba Británií a Argentinou, kupodivu o jednom se ví ale další byly zastírány, jak? To máme věřit tomu že třeba posádka britské lodi to nikde nevykecala? že novináři to nezveřejnili? Smile To by nevyšlo ani v SSSR (i tam se podobné věci objevily byť ve formě "přijatelné". Prostě je to postavené na předpokladu že čtenář nemyslí a je důvěřivý jako malé dítě (lepší a důvěryhodnější je třeba ta o trpaslících a sněhurce Smile )
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261639 Version : 0
it is necessary to take into account that the Nazis did not think logically and as far as directly hitler he liked to fall into romantic ideas and completely meaningless plans ... I do not see it so unrealistically ... the base could be used to launch long-range missiles ... or just maybe for research ... maybe what I know ... the Nazis invested in many useless and crazy projects that included incredible logistical support and I'm not talking about the deployment of slaves ...
after all, there were fights over this area after the war who will have a missile base or radar there ...


but it is true that there is a minimum of evidence (basically none) of the existence of a Nazi military base or a direct military presence, so most of the arguments are useless ... unless some as yet unpublished documents come to the surface ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261645 Version : 0

Citace :

.. the base could be used to launch long-range missiles ..



Have you ever tried to measure the distances between the USA, Russia and Germany? Deliberately try it and you will find that it is more than half less than between the USA, Russia and Antarctica.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261648 Version : 0
Well, let's take it one by one. Where did you get that the Nazis didn't think logically? Do you think that those who do not think logically can shake the whole of Europe? I'm afraid that the lack of logic would be found more in you, And that AH was a romantic is complete nonsense, his reasoning was usually completely logical, and to believe those who have lost and need to blame someone is somewhat doubtful. The fact that a number of generals wrote their memories after the war where they write how they would have won if AH had not spoiled it, has one flaw, they served him enthusiastically and climbed the anal, at least until 1943 were "romantic ideas and completely meaningless plans so realistic that the Russians had backed thousands of kilometers, and all of Europe was left with only Britain, so much for romance and nonsense.
In 1939, there was neither sight nor hearing of any long-range missiles, otherwise it is, as the crowd wrote to you, utter nonsense, when I want to hit something, it is logical to get closer (for example, the Russian attempt to install missiles in Cuba, not get as far as possible (again you miss at least elementary logic)
When it comes to research, you are completely out of it again, research needs support, for example from neighboring fields, so the idea of a "research facility" cut off somewhere in the anus of the world is completely out of reality. Try to realize what you write as nonsense, a team of researchers (for example in the field of engine development) squats in the anus of the world, in their experiments they find that the available material is unsuitable, but in that anus it does not have the opportunity to ask metallurgy research for a new alloy, simply because it must wait for the ship with supplies to come to them and send it somewhere to the other side of the world and wait for what will happen next, I really have to admire your logic, it's a pity that AH didn't have it.
The Nazis did not invest in nonsensical and crazy projects, it is a popular nonsense of fools who on the one hand look for mysteries and on the other hand overlook reality, the result of Nazi "nonsensical" projects is V2, which is the basis of rockets that started all space research, "Research was the beginning of a series of 50 'constructions on both sides of the" Iron Curtain ". And to talk about the work of "slaves" in connection with Antarctica is already a complete weakness, how would the mentioned slaves get there and how would they feed them there? Do you mean before you write anything?
There is no (not minimal) evidence of the existence of a "base", the only thing that is indisputable is that the Nazis sent an expedition to Antarctica before the war and that according to their ship they called the area New Swabia, the reason is quite well known, at that time it was "free territory". "which the great powers did not fight for, so it was possible to get them as a colony, which will not bear anything but can be used for promotional purposes (Germany again has colonies in the newspapers) which was the main reason in addition to the usual research. Why is it that nowadays, when satellites scan the entire territory of the planet, when in a few hundred you can buy a picture of any point in high resolution, there are still individuals who believe that "there is something", trips are made to Antarctica (as well as to the north pole) and for travelers it would be a perfect place for the destination, it is the same nonsense as when it was written a few years ago that the German ship in front of Montevideo will be dismantled radar (it was known that all this material was destroyed before the German ship Likewise, theories about what the Nazis did in Tibet, about the "spear of fate" and things like that emerge regularly and annoyingly, and I'm afraid AH was more logical than those who write or read and believe similar scrutiny.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261719 Version : 0
[quote = "bitaxe"] So let's take it one by one. Where did you get that the Nazis did not think logically? [/Quote] The liquidation of Jews and other nations was, of course, strictly logical, in the war effort these people could also contribute ...
Disproportionate investment in miraculous weapons, AH followed horoscopes that could be influenced by the creator, the development of unnecessary weapons such as tank maus, etc ... not even counting the paranoia inducing the methamphetamine range that the driver used to lose here then the logic was lost ... Smile
yes it was all logical ... and there was much more ... but some people may misunderstand the meaning of logic, it doesn't mean that when something is illogical it's bad! But I don't want to defend the Nazis ...

Citace :

Do you think that those who do not think logically can shake the whole of Europe?

yes, definitely yes ...
by that I do not mean that the Nazis did not think logically but that they were influenced differently than 1 + 1 = 2

Citace :

I'm afraid the lack of logic would be found in you

I use logic just like anti-logic unlike other people ...

Citace :

And the fact that AH was a romantic is complete nonsense
... The Nazi vision was the romance of the coarsest grain about it no doubt, the vision of the Aryan nation on the rise, the vision of the superman, etc ... it was all romance ... but today people imagine romance more on the bench with their sweetheart ...

Citace :

In 1939, no long-range missiles could be seen or heard
shak kuli plot! The missile base was just an illogical example ...

Citace :

When it comes to research,

it didn't have to be a military base, the research could have been about their romantic frozen realm ... and as the war progressed and the crumbling situation could prepare a place for temporary "safekeeping" of Nazi leaders after the war, they would look everywhere ... at least ... of course only for a short time
..but these are eggs from my finger so please don't catch it again Smile

Citace :

Why is it that nowadays, when satellites scan the entire territory of the planet, when in a few hundred you can buy a picture of any point in high resolution, there are still individuals who believe that "there is something"

I didn't talk about this. And I think it's nonsense about the existence of a Nazi base to date ... yeah, and while we're at it: do you think you can buy a photo of a military base in Russia for a few shit? hard ... think ...
not all places are open to the public ...

Citace :

In the same way, theories about what the Nazis did in Tibet, about the "spear of fate" and similar things emerge with regularity and annoyingly. I'm afraid AH was more logical than those who write or read similar papers and believe. [/Quote]
tibet is solved ... nothing happened there ...
however, the burning of Goethean in Switzerland by Rudolf Steiner was also apparently logical ...
Was he a great enemy of the Nazis rattling his weapons?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261770 Version : 0
To the photos of the military base in Russia - do you know google earth? I'm not saying that there are no retouched images, but they are probably the best you can get for free ... And there are also Russian (and not only Russian) air and missile bases, including descriptions from various maniacs ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261774 Version : 0
of course I know google earth ..
images for google earth are censored for these objects.
active and important military bases are of course banned in the area of zoom, it is without debate ...
there are also many "dead" and unimportant bases where you can easily look with googleearth ..
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261781 Version : 0
And do you have any evidence for your claim to censorship?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261785 Version : 0
Well, again for what you imagine and what is real, from the point of view of the Nazis, the liquidation of some groups of the population was completely logical, whether it is monstrous is a different matter. This liquidation had several aspects, originally murdered, Jews had the opportunity to emigrate, as well as other groups (such as rigid believers, communists and social democrats - some communists went to the Nazis, another part traveled and the rest was closed) but without property, next and perhaps most important was the "unification of the nation" against something, usually an enemy and because at first it could not be an enemy from the outside, found inside, in a relatively economically collapsed Germany Jews were quite easy, as well as communists, first because part one of them had property and thus it was possible to seduce the disruption of the economy, the others because they could to some extent political disruption. So this had a clear logic, the idea of what they could contribute to the war effort is ridiculous and shows that you have no idea what you are writing, until 1943 the Germans did nothing like the "war effort" as we know it from Britain, although they used foreign workers and sometimes prisoners, but they did not focus on war material until the arrival of Speer, this began to change, so the use is quite out of place, for example, German women (again, unlike the British and American) were basically never used (probably they would be larger benefit due to its number).
Logic is not absolute, you should realize, logic is based on how a given individual (or system) is determined, Nazis behaved logically, just like other systems, for the French it was logical to sacrifice Czechoslovakia, for Stalin it was logical to invade Poland along with Germany, it would be illogical if, for example, AH sold the armament of the Czechoslovak Army to Poland and subsequently attacked it, but this never happened.
I would dare to doubt that you would use logic if you did not do so. You would not mention a completely illogical and unsubstantiated article here.
What AH was and what you stand for does not matter, the facts do not confirm anything similar, AH was a nationalist (he demonstrated this before WWI) but not a romantic, he calculated very skillfully and clearly proved himself as a politician, which is not the case with romantics. If you look for the facts and not third-hand gossip and gossip, you will find that AH was quite a hard and ascetically living, strongly calculating individual, a romantic was not surprisingly. If you consider romance, for example, a hobby in Wagnerian operas, it's about something else, just a hobby. Just as it is claimed that he was only erased, about 5 years ago several of his paintings were judged (experts did not know who painted them) and surprisingly they did not take them as bad, but as mediocre artists of the pre-WWI era (not lubricated without talent, but average talented If you want to start from nonsense and believe them, it's your business, unfortunately you can't get to understand the time.
I quote: "shak kuli plot! The missile base was just an illogical example ..." you seem to see that your "logic" is often lame, however the corner of the plot is much easier in Europe than in Antarctica, just for fun, try to find out (why give you results, find them) what effort it cost the Germans to maintain a mini-base in Svalbard, where they had a short distance and which (unlike Antarctica) they needed due to weather forecasts for the Air Force and submarines. Then realize the difference in distances and try to imagine it in Antarctica.
Another nonsense "with the progress of the war and the collapsing situation could prepare a place for temporary" safekeeping "of Nazi leaders after the war, because they would look for them everywhere" but she did not collapse from the Germans' point of view until 1943 (rather until 1944 (beginning)), so the fact that they would build a base there is nonsense, in 1939 there was no reason for it, later (for example in 1944) there was no way to transport material and labor there.Try to think about your "logic" at a time when there are no submarines to fight against transport to Britain, some of them will be released to transport cargo to Antarctica Smile by the way submarine cruises are known and documented practically the whole war, so there is no place for it So did the Nazis get there? Again, flying saucers, 7,000-mile planes, and similar nonsense? I'm afraid you have no idea that logic is derived from facts, not from the fact that "I read that it was so, so it is". The vast majority of older work on the Nazi leadership is strongly influenced by what the captured German commanders said, but of course they did not behave illogically, on the contrary, logically tried to look as good as possible and thus make all the mistakes of someone else, political leadership was quite a reasonable victim often the mistake was on the part of the commanders is quite overlooked, after all, AH took command relatively late, until then only set targets and the command (OKH) developed them, a large part of successes and failures falls on them not on AH. "but these are eggs from your finger so please don't catch it again" if you work instead of facts with nonsense sucked out of your finger there is no point in discussing with you, if you write something you should be able to defend it at least on the level of possible reality. The base in Antarctica is just bullshit, it would be easier in the former German southwest Africa, it's closer, it's where to get food and especially then there lived a strong German community in which it was possible to get lost (but it's not so effective and therefore interesting , however, it is more logical)
Even the former base can be revealed (hundreds of years old things were also revealed), and as for the possibility to buy photos of anything, it really works, satellites work on a commercial basis and sell you a picture of anything, depending on the size of the resolution varies. bases there is no doubt that you can buy them. Realize (again, you are illogical) that military satellites work with better technology, so any party must reckon with the fact that it is being watched by those from the "other side", so if it is photographed by European commercial satellites, for example, it doesn't matter (how would China For example, on the aforementioned Google, the photos are so decent that you can recognize the types of planes at airports (I tried it in Kamchatka when I was looking for something there and accidentally stumbled upon the airport.) Censorship is out, maybe in China. Many satellites (for geophysical research) are private and purely commercial, the state can hardly speak into them.
What on earth did the New Year's Eve 1922 fire have to do with the Nazis and their base? Or maybe with other myths created by various fools? If someone is happy on New Year's Eve, it doesn't matter if they're in Switzerland or in Lapland, for example, isn't it so weird that they catch a house where you see something strange? It is not strange that a group of enthusiasts for the anthroposophical world view lived there quite randomly (based on Goethe's work) it is not strange, they had to live somewhere that the peasants did not like them in the vicinity (they were bad people) is also known, so where is your problem ?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261803 Version : 0
to orsic. Please don't logic anymore. And especially & # 283; not u Nazi & # 367 ;. Nap & # 345 ;. liquidation of the so-called subhumans - not only & # 381; id & # 367 ;, but also Roma & # 367 ;, Slavic & # 367; and so on - it was written. logical. These nations, which were inappropriate from the point of view of racial theory of Nazism, were to make room for the Germanic nation. And before it was liquidated, it was changed. The future of Germanism deserves hard work. Concentration camps were not just real death factories that were judged to be dangerous or unusable, but their staff — that which was selected as death. 345 as entry as healthy, strong and workable - used by industrial enterprises as a cheap and consumable workforce. And as the war progressed, it was often irreplaceable, as was the German consumer machinery and the military machinery. But that's something from water plans. Nazi & # 367; it deviated as their military strikes struck. And the free space should be populated by selected individuals in the form of some pseudo-feudal sincures - see for example. Lebensborn project, where selected young and racial & # 283; perfect Germanic males can continuously fertilize no less than # 283; rasov & # 283; perfectly selected females, or research on double and multiple births, carried out e.g. i infamous & # 283; the famous dr. Mengelem.
And this is how you could refute your remarks one by one. Post & # 283; not & # 382; to report something, I need to find out the facts and not replace them with assumptions. (that's a nice pedagogical education that started out what lol Smile
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261866 Version : 0
Well, there was a lot of logic (basically almost everything) for the Nazis, the other thing is that their logic was based on different premises than ours. Unfortunately, it is a silly notion (widespread) that there is some general "justice", a general perception of what is "right" and, of course, that everyone sees the matter the same way. Surprisingly, this is true even though society is based on a system of elections (in a dictatorship it would be more understandable) when it regularly turns out that many are seen differently, by different individuals. By the way, it was the Nazis who, with their idea, won the elections in Germany in 1933, which is quite a rarity in totalitarian ideology, probably their logic appealed to many people, so it could not be so out of place in the context of time and place. I'm always amused (or annoyed) by someone who tries to brag about what it was like without knowing the period, taking one's feelings as a coin two generations later. The time of the 1930s was significantly different, and therefore people's understanding was different, they were based on completely different foundations and ideas, so logically they came to different results. This is, after all, the reason why I believe more in statistics, economic principles and physics than in the desire to "reveal" the great secrets. Well, exact things do not show the Nazis as fantastic, but rather as people quite careful and financing only things where there was great certainty of the result.
This applies, for example, to "secret" weapons, in reality the Germans developed with some priority only quite real things (for example, A bomb had a minimum priority (the implementation estimate was unclear and so the project received only a minimum priority) similarly, for example, jets, the first flew before the war , but the priority was low, so for example, the Me-262 came into service about two years later than it would have happened if the project had a higher priority.As well as other projects, in reality had allies (ie GB and US, the Russians it is possible to omit this) probably more projects that led nowhere than the Nazis, they are not so much written about them.It is stupid to underestimate the Nazis on the one hand (hitler as half crazy and the like) and on the other hand to be ecstatic as they built the base in Antarctica , which is not easy even today, just reality is often much more interesting than fiction.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261872 Version : 0
note * // for reasons unknown to me, the forum will not maintain login or posts anonymous = orsic
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261907 Version : 0
[quote = "orsic"] [quote = "crowd"] And do you have any evidence for your claim about censorship?
this is without debate ... if you think that any franta will look at the active Russian base with a complete layout of buildings, etc. so that he can note the exact coordinates, so you are a little naive ...


Or you will be one of those who lives in the idea of constant surveillance and a global conspiracy.


Am I repeating my request for proof?
The nonsense in a show filmed by God knows when and by whom they are definitely not proof.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261912 Version : 0

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třeba tady ...
technet.idnes.cz


nebo tady :
blog.wired.com
a to se samozřejmě netýká jen google-earth ale i jiných public projektů užívající družice ...


prostě bez debat ... Rolling Eyes
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261915 Version : 0

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Jenže to nejsou satelitní snímky, ale fotografie pořízené naprosto normálním způsobem - jenže o tom snad debata není.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261916 Version : 0

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samozřejmě se to týká všech druhů fotek a jde o snímky detailní čili jde o funkci zoom ale to je snad jasné páč snímky z vejšky nikoho nerozházej ...ze shora ze zdola ...páč je to totéž ...ale to už ti snad dojde ...


Google Earth and Google Maps tend to give high-ranking officers and spies the creeps. The Defense Department recently blocked Google Earth from making detailed, street-level maps of U.S. military bases; the Brits got overhead images of their installations wiped. And while a small cadre of American spooks are coming up with clever Google mash-ups to track political and cultural landscapes in the Middle East, many others are worried that Google Earth might be employed as means for hiding messages, or indicating potential targets.


So what nefarious group, a Pentagon or Langley-type might be inclined to ask, would make a Google mash-up "identifying the location of every Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine military installation in the U.S.?"


"The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), that's who," answers the Google Maps Mania blog. The FAA's SeeAndAvoid.org "offers a centralized, credible website for civilian pilots and military safety officers." It even shows where military exercises might be conducted, and what airspace is restricted to Defense Department fliers.
zdroj je nahoře ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261918 Version : 0

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Totéž to bohužel není a páč jsem v tomto oboru náhodou zaměstnán tak o tom rozdílu asi trochu něco budu vědět.
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Citace - dav :

Totéž to bohužel není a páč jsem v tomto oboru náhodou zaměstnán tak o tom rozdílu asi trochu něco budu vědět.

na počátku projektu GE bylo vidět vše,pamatuji to ale postupně se začlo s blokováním a to nejen v USA Sad


týká se to všech ožehavých objektů ... myslím že budou na černém listu i atomové elektrárny atd ...


jde o to že pentagon blokuje ale i jiné projekty než GE,soukromé ...


googlemapsmania.blogspot.com
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261922 Version : 0

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To vše je ale jen o jedné části Google Earth tedy o Street view, ale ne o tom, že by tyto základny byli z Google Earth vyretušovány - ono Street view není přístupná nejen pro vojenské základny, ale i pro x tisíc dalších lokací po celém světě. A věř že detailní zobrazení nebylo nikdy přístupné pro celou planetu, ale jen pro určité místa - to si zase pro změnu pamatuji já.
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a o tom se bavíme ... o detailech základen ...ale to jsem psal už nahoře jestli si všimneš ...že šlo o funkci zoom..


bylo by zbytečné retušovat i ty pohledy z vrchu když jsou snadno dostupné souřadnice většiny základen .. Very Happy
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261925 Version : 0

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Ne bav9me se o tomto

Citace - orsic :

samozřejmě google earth znám ..
snímky pro google earth jsou pro tyto objekty cenzurovány.



Ona tam funkce, kterou ty nazýváš zoom , samozřejmě je někde je ten zoom větší někde menší - to ale nemá s cenzurou co dělat. Koukal jsi někdy na základny Nato v Evropě ( např. Ramstein) - bylo jejich zobrazení jiné než zobrazení ostatních míst v daném pásmu. Ono spousta toho co ty nazýváš cenzurou je jen a jen o penězích, protože jakékoliv satelitní a letecké snímkování je velmi dobrý kšeft. Cenzurou lze označit to co je uvedeno na tvém prvním odkazu - zákaz publikace panoramatických fotografií - ty ale nejsou získány ze satelitu ale buď klasickým pozemním fotografováním nebo šikmým leteckým snímkováním.
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Citace - dav :

Ne bav9me se o tomto

Citace - orsic :

samozřejmě google earth znám ..
snímky pro google earth jsou pro tyto objekty cenzurovány.



Ona tam funkce, kterou ty nazýváš zoom , samozřejmě je někde je ten zoom větší někde menší - to ale nemá s cenzurou co dělat. Koukal jsi někdy na základny Nato v Evropě ( např. Ramstein) - bylo jejich zobrazení jiné než zobrazení ostatních míst v daném pásmu. Ono spousta toho co ty nazýváš cenzurou je jen a jen o penězích, protože jakékoliv satelitní a letecké snímkování je velmi dobrý kšeft. Cenzurou lze označit to co je uvedeno na tvém prvním odkazu - zákaz publikace panoramatických fotografií - ty ale nejsou získány ze satelitu ale buď klasickým pozemním fotografováním nebo šikmým leteckým snímkováním.

dobrá pak mě teda vysvětli proč se nepodívám na detail US základny který jsem na počátku projektu GE mohl vidět?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261929 Version : 0

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Citace :

Cenzurou lze označit to co je uvedeno na tvém prvním odkazu - zákaz publikace panoramatických fotografií - ty ale nejsou získány ze satelitu ale buď klasickým pozemním fotografováním nebo šikmým leteckým snímkováním.



Proto. Detaily nejsou ze satelitu, ale z leteckého snímkování.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261930 Version : 0

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tady ještě nějaký info ..
www.france24.com


nebudeme tady slovíčkařit prostě to je banned a hotovo ... jestli to je fotka z družice nebo z letadla je putna je prostě bloklej detail at už je ze shora či zboku a fertig ... nevím co tady porád řešíte ..


je nad slunce jasné že tady jde o fotky na kterých jsou detaily základen ...každýmu jsou ukradený rozmázly mapy z výšky ...


přesvědčíte-li mě o opaku,rád se na nějakou základnu podívám a rád Very Happy (ale v detailu !)Very Happy
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261931 Version : 0

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A aký veľký detail potrebuješ?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261932 Version : 0

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Tu máš zopár snímkov, konkrétne ruských základní. Viem že nejaké snímky sú aj priamo v databáze, ale neviem ku ktorým základniam...
forum.valka.cz
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261933 Version : 0

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Ono přesvědčovat někoho kdo je přesvědčený o své pravdě je tak trochu zbytečné. A jestli neznáš rozdíl mezi satelitním leteckým a pozemním snímkem a navíc jej ani nechceš uznat tak je to házení hrachu na zeď .
Věř že třeba letecký snímek jakékoliv části ČR pořízený např. v roce 1938 stojí nějakých 560kč (velikost území je různá ale zpravidla jde o území asi tak 1/4 dnešní Prahy) a to jde o rozlišení 0,5m na pixel - ono je to opravdu velmi dobrý kšeft a jen blázen by je pouštěl vždy vše zadarmo.
Vysvětlení může být naprosto prozaické - google nakoupilo aktualizované snímky v menším rozlišení, nebo šlo o panoramatické či šikmé letecké snímkování , případně o letecké měřické snímkování - které pro aktualizované satelitní snímkování nebylo nakoupeno , těch logických vysvětlení je dost.
To jak se tu oháníš cenzurou na google bys stejně mohl napadat magistrát hl. města Prahy, který jistou dobu zdarma provozoval web, kde bylo snímkování právě z rozlišením 0.5m na pixel v různých letech naprosto volně přístupné. Dnes je to pro veřejnost jen za placený přístup.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261935 Version : 0

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Díval ses vůbec na ten odkaz? Ty fotky JSOU z GE. A tady máš jednu čerstvou, kterou jsem z GE udělal, stejná základna jako na prvním obrázku. Jiné rozmístění letadel dokazuje, že mezitím došlo k novému snímkování. A ne, ten můj obrázek neunikl kvůli žádné pronajaté družici.


Edit: tak ses mezitím podíval. Nuže, zde je požadovaný snímek. Na co se budeš vymlouvat teď?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261955 Version : 0

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na souřadnicích 23°44'15.52"S 133°51'20.01"E se nachází v austrálii známá US aktivní základna poblíž Alice Springs a v reálu tam je parádní retuš pentagonu ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261956 Version : 0

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Hele brzdi. Byls usvědčen z nepravdy, tak jsi svůj příspěvek smazal? Něco jsi sliboval, místo toho teď odvádíš řeč na nějakou základnu USA... Tak to opravdu nemá cenu diskutovat.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261957 Version : 0

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Opět už po několikáté ukazuješ že moc netušíš o čem vlastně píšeš, je docela zásadní rozdíl mezi snímky z družic a tím co nabízí, zadarmo a to je důležité, GE. Mimochodem pokud to "tam ze začátku bylo" asi je to někde uložené (minimálně u někoho kdo si to tehdy stáhl a uložil), to ale není vůbec důležité, pokud si představuješ že GE je nějaký vrchol technologií takl jsi dost vedle. To je sice hezká a zajímavá ale pořád jen hračka pro někoho koho baví koukat na podobnou hru. Reálné a prodejné satelitní snímky jsou dostupné za peníze, a jediná cenzura je o tom kolik jsi ochoten zaplatit. Mimochodem jestli věříš tomu že rozmíatění baráků na základně nebo třeba v elektrárně je nějaké Top Secret (tím spíš u cizího státu) jsi opravdu asi jeden z těch kteří vidí zásahy vlády za každým rohem a přitom volají z mobilu a platí kartou Smile
Zkus si schválně říci kdo by cenzuroval třeba fotky základen v Rusku, Číně nebo třeba v Angole, dané země asi sotva, hodný americký strýček už vůbec ne (nemá ani důvod a v podstatě ani moc možností) tak kdo? Myslíš nějaké "temné síly tahající za nitky" "? A abychom se vrátili k té původní demenci, proč by někdo "cenzuroval" fotky antarktidy? A tedy i te tajemné německé základny o kterou tu původně jde?
A pokud se chceš podívat na nějakou základnu v detailu, tak si holt budeš muset zaplatit, zadarmo uvidíš to co je zadarmo, tedy GE a podobné levné věci, ono je to jako většina věcí o penězích.
K tomu pořadu v TV, nemohu ho posoudit protožr z tvého popisu se asi nedá identifikovat, ale právě v TV jsem viděl tolik nesmyslů že by mne nepřekvapilo kdyby i tohle bylo z jejich hnízda.
Mimochodem k tomu 1+1=2 ty si asi neuvědomuješ že to co ty dnes považuješ za 1 nebylo tou 1 v době a místě o kterém se bavíme. To je ale bohužel pohled mnoha lidí kteří si přečtou pár knížek psaných z dnešního pohledu na věci minulé a cítí se "poučeni" poučení je to možná o některých faktech, nikoli ale o důvodech a pohnutkách, ty jsou determinovány dobou a okolím, to se ale tehdy značně lišilo od dneška, právě proto je tvůj pohled na tehdejší logiku zkreslený tím co si jako dnešní člověk myslíš. Pohled a logika lidí doby třeba nacistického německa ale byl jiný, jejich jedničky také a proto ač logika byla správná tobě se to nezdá.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261961 Version : 0

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tak za prvé nemluvil jsem jenom o GE!
pentagon se sere i do soukromých společností vlastníci družice.fotografie nepohodlných oblastí nemohou publikovat


príšpěvek jsem smazal páč v něm nic nebylo průkazné narozdíl od alice springs


NIKDO NIC NEPSAL O CENZUŘE ANTARKTIDY A NĚJAKÉ ZÁKLADNY NA NÍ !!!! byl to jenom příklad s těma základnama že určitá místa nemusí být zcela přístupné na mapách


tečka končím ...
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Citace - Aubi :

Díval ses vůbec na ten odkaz? Ty fotky JSOU z GE. A tady máš jednu čerstvou, kterou jsem z GE udělal, stejná základna jako na prvním obrázku. Jiné rozmístění letadel dokazuje, že mezitím došlo k novému snímkování. A ne, ten můj obrázek neunikl kvůli žádné pronajaté družici.


Edit: tak ses mezitím podíval. Nuže, zde je požadovaný snímek. Na co se budeš vymlouvat teď?



pošli link se souřadnicema a podkladem že na těch souřadnicích ta základna skutečně je ... tohle je fotka 2 roky stará ...
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Umíš číst? Tak si to v tom obrázku najdi. Obrázek jsem dělal před hodinou, souřadnice jsou v levém dolním rohu. V odkazu nahoře máš fotku té samé oblasti, jen nepatrně jinak natočenou a s menším přiblížením.


Edit:
smiloval jsem se a souřadnice ti vypsal: 53°09'44.36"S 158°27'58.44"E . Mimochodem, zajíámalo by mě, jak poznáš, že je to dva roky stará fotka. Každá fotka s pro tvé výroky nevhodným rozlišením je dva roky stará, že jo?
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A samozřejmě pošli link s dokladem, že na těch souřadnicích ta základna není...
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Citace - Aubi :

Umíš číst? Tak si to v tom obrázku najdi. Obrázek jsem dělal před hodinou, souřadnice jsou v levém dolním rohu. V odkazu nahoře máš fotku té samé oblasti, jen nepatrně jinak natočenou a s menším přiblížením.


Edit:
smiloval jsem se a souřadnice ti vypsal: 53°09'44.36"S 158°27'58.44"E . Mimochodem, zajíámalo by mě, jak poznáš, že je to dva roky stará fotka. Každá fotka s pro tvé výroky nevhodným rozlišením je dva roky stará, že jo?

tak tam je voda pane vodník
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Dokaž to. A nebo si prostě do GE napiš Petropavlovsk Kamčatskij a podívej se severovýchodně od města.



Edit: souřadnice vedou blbě, uznávám, zkus tyhle:
53° 9'44.93"S 158°28'1.95"V


Edit 2: nebo přímo jméno základny, Petropavlovsk-Yelizovo.
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Niečo o základni pri Alice Springs na súradniciach 23°44'15.52"S 133°51'20.01"E... www.abovetopsecret.com (súradnice súhlasia s tými čo vložil orsic), mám 100 chtí si nainštalovať GE aj na služobný notebook


Tajná základňa na google.maps: maps.google.com - na súradniciach 23°44'15.52"S 133°51'20.01"E je toto: maps.google.com - vyzerá to ako farma postavená na leteckej základni.... A ak som správne pochopil, ide o prísne tajnú základňu Pine Gap - jedna teória je tu: tajomstva.org
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Na tu Alice Springs jsem se teda podíval, na souřadnicích je jakési jezero, podle odkazu na Google Maps jsem se podíval kus západněji, kde opravdu je jakási základna.
Podzemní továrna v Chebu - Původní souřadnice - voda.

Původní souřadnice - voda.
Podzemní továrna v Chebu - Základna, špendlík ukazuje souřadnice.

Základna, špendlík ukazuje souřadnice.
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Tá základňa je podľa viacerých zdrojov základňa Pine Gap, slúžiaca na komunikáciu a ovládanie špionáznych sružíc.... Ale v tom "jazere" sú viditeľné nejaké komunikácie.... Pokiaľ ide o cenzúru, tak je sfušovaná.
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Citace - Aubi :

Dokaž to. A nebo si prostě do GE napiš Petropavlovsk Kamčatskij a podívej se severovýchodně od města.



Edit: souřadnice vedou blbě, uznávám, zkus tyhle:
53° 9'44.93"S 158°28'1.95"V


Edit 2: nebo přímo jméno základny, Petropavlovsk-Yelizovo.

ty tvé souřadnice opět nefungují ale našel jsem to tady :
53°10′04″N158°27′13″E
toto letiště je používáno i jako civilní ...
jsou tam vidět migy a vrtulníky to je prauda
http://www.vataware.com/airport.cfm?airport=UHPP


info :


Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky Airport


Yelizovo Airport (Russian: Аэропорт Елизово) (IATA: PKC, ICAO: UHPP) is an airport located in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Kamchatka Krai, Russia. Its runway is 3400 meters long, enough to accommodate fully loaded Boeing 747s. The main apron contains 24 parking spaces, 8 of which can service a Boeing 747; additional 8 paved spaces for smaller aircraft and 12 unpaved parking spaces.


The main military operating unit is the 865 IAP (865th Interceptor Aviation Regiment), which operates MiG-31 interceptor aircraft. Naval operations have also taken place here, most notably with the 317 OSAP (317th Separate Composite Aviation Regiment) operating Tupolev Tu-16R aircraft as late as 1992, and Beriev Be-12 and Tupolev Tu-95MS aircraft with unidentified units[1]. Recent Google Earth high-resolution imagery revealed that the base continues to serve as an important military focal point, with 29 MiG-31 aircraft dispersed throughout the airfield and a large number of prop transports and helicopters.



worldaerodata.com


TYPE CIVIL !


ale jsou tam migy to je důležitý IMHO
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Citace - buko1 :

mám 100 chtí si nainštalovať GE aj na služobný notebook

nejde tady přece o GE můžeš si objednat za nemalou částku aktuální fotografii ze zadaných souřadnic ve vysokém rozlišení ... jde o to jestli ti tu fotografii schválej nebo ne ...


GE vzal čert ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261975 Version : 0

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Aubiho súradnice fungujú, akurát ich treba preložiť do angličtiny (Sever - North, Východ - East)....
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Citace - Aubi :

Na tu Alice Springs jsem se teda podíval, na souřadnicích je jakési jezero, podle odkazu na Google Maps jsem se podíval kus západněji, kde opravdu je jakási základna.

jo něco tam je ale amíci to nebudou
hádám kravín nebo slepičárna ... Very Happy
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Citace - buko1 :

Aubiho súradnice fungujú, akurát ich treba preložiť do angličtiny (Sever - North, Východ - East)....

jj díky ale stejně to je putna je to polocivil ... nízká důležitost
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261978 Version : 0

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"nejde tady přece o GE můžeš si objednat za nemalou částku aktuální fotografii ze zadaných souřadnic ve vysokém rozlišení ... jde o to jestli ti tu fotografii schválej nebo ne ... "


Kdo jí schválí, "oni"?




To letiště jsem vybral proto, že bylo hned z kraje, ale můžeš si přece ověřit kterékoli z toho odkazu nahoře. Já to za tebe dělat nebudu.
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Že Vás to baví Smile Razz Smile
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261980 Version : 0

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Nebaví. Ale práce na diplomce taky ne, takže i blbej únnik je únik.
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no mě to rozhodně nebaví ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#261982 Version : 0

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Jen pro zajímavost, taky příklad cenzury voj. základen maps.google.com , kdyby někdo nevěděl tak je to Norfolk, Virginia.
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vrátane ponoriek a vrtuľníkovej (výsadkovej) lode....
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Add Alice Spring - co tak kliknout na tu tečku co je v dané lokaci umístěna - objeví se tyto stránky http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/pine_gap.htm - co ještě chceš detailnějšího. Řekl bych že na fotografii z větším přiblížením se základna nevejde. Ach jo ta cenzura .....
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Citace - dav :

Add Alice Spring - co tak kliknout na tu tečku co je v dané lokaci umístěna - objeví se tyto stránky http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/pine_gap.htm - co ještě chceš detailnějšího. Řekl bych že na fotografii z větším přiblížením se základna nevejde. Ach jo ta cenzura .....

koukám že jsi vůbec nic nepochopil ... jde samozřejmě o aktuální fotky na mapovacích systémech,aktuální fotky na objednávku podle souřadnic ...to ti taky seženu kdejakou zaplivanou fotku kdoví jak starou ... v několika časopisech byly fotky alice springs a tuhle jsem taky před časem viděl ... bóže bóže ...Rolling Eyes
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Citace - dav :

Jen pro zajímavost, taky příklad cenzury voj. základen maps.google.com , kdyby někdo nevěděl tak je to Norfolk, Virginia.

opět zde ukázka tvé ignorace ...
vždyt bych se tam mohl u těch lodí v klidu procházet a fotit ... bez tak se da jít i do těch lodí ... zde se nejedná o utajenou základnu ...
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A pán samozřejmě všude byl a vše viděl a proto může tvrdit, že to vše co jsme mu tu předložili jsou podvrhy a všichni jsme ignoranti, hmm tož to je o něčem jiném - zase jeden zarytej.


Víš co já se jdu věnovat něčemu jinému bo tohle fakt nemá cenu sám nepředložíš jediný důkaz o svém tvrzení a když ti je předložen důkaz o tom, že přinejlepším nevíš co píšeš označíš to za podvrh , až ti rukou budou denně procházet placené satelitní snímky celého světa a budeš mít možnost je srovnat s tím co je volně přístupné tak se tu budeme bavit o ignorantství - ovšem do té doby si hold budu myslet , že jsi jeden ze zastánců globálního spiknutí, vlády ufonů, zednářské lóže či já nevím kdo kolik podobných teorií vymyslel.
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Jen tak pro zajímavost, utajování polohy a vzhledu jakékoliv základny pomocí retuše je blbost - jakýkoliv vládě nepřátelský tisk nebo tisk jiného státu, či kterýkoliv jiný vlastník družic sloužících k pořizování snímků zemského povrchu by mě velmi rychle usvědčil z podvrhu - to už tu ale psal Bitaxe.
(V tom výčtu jsem schválně vynechal fotogrametrická pracoviště zabývající se zpracováním leteckých měřických snímků - mimochodem základního produktu pro tvorbu map - jakékoliv další pracoviště podílející se na tvorbě map má tyto snímky k dispozici).
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Citace - dav :

A pán samozřejmě všude byl a vše viděl a proto může tvrdit, že to vše co jsme mu tu předložili jsou podvrhy a všichni jsme ignoranti, hmm tož to je o něčem jiném - zase jeden zarytej.

netvrdím že všechny základny jsou skryté (např téměř opuštěná area 51 je krásně vidět)pouze ty co jsou důležité pro bezpečnost dané země.ale to už jsem psal výše ...
vy jste nepředložili žádné souřadnice na kterých se nachází "core" základna a je viditelně na některém z mapovacích systémů či firmu která zprostředuje fotografii toho místa z družice.


já jsem předložil několik článků o cenzuře vojenských základen na systému GE.


předložil jsem souřadnice "core" US základny v Austrálii kde je v systému GE evidentně cenzurována ...


tak tady prosímtě neplácej nesmysly o tom kdo nic nepředložil ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262001 Version : 0

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"předložil jsem souřadnice "core" US základny v Austrálii kde je v systému GE evidentně cenzurována ... "


Ta základna tam je, ale ne na těch souřadnicích (to byl okraj města), ale kousek vedle (i když podle tebe je to slepičárna, fotka od Dava ukazuje stejný objekt krásně rozeznatelnými radomy), tak co to zase meleš? A článků z webů o globálních spiknutích ti můžu naodkazovat taky hromadu, a nic tím nedokážu. Říkals něco o rozdílu mezi starou verzí GE a současností, tak to dokaž - najdi fotku z původního GE a stejnou lokaci ze součastného GE, na které půjde poznat ta tvoje retuš. Jinak zatím úspěšně vršíš jednu teorii na druhou, a jakmile se ti prokáže opak, zapomeneš na to a jedeš něco nového.
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Abych řekl pravdu tak vám nerozumím - pokud se bavíme o místě označeném výše jako Alice Spring, tak vám kolega Aubi předložil důkaz o tom že na daných souřadnicích základna je - já vám předložil odkaz na šikmý snímek této základny, pokud by jste si srovnal tento šikmý snímek a to co vám předložil Aubi, tak zjistíte že jsou totožné. Ještě nějaký problém.

Na zákazu publikování pozemních snímků nebo případně šikmých leteckých snímků jsme se shodli to ale nic nemění na satelitních snímcích.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262004 Version : 0

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"Téměř opuštěné Area 51"? Samozřejmě, v porovnání s lety Studené války je základna Groom Lake podstatně méně zalidněná, možná i proto že se teď nevyvíjí tolik přísně tajných letounů (není ani moc důvod), samozřejmě že když tam třeba Northrop a Lockheed zkoušely prototypy "nového bombardéru" (vyhrál B-2 od Northropů), byl tam podstatně větší provoz (a na ranvejích bys tam nenašel nic moc, vše se pečlivě uklízelo kvůli Ruským satelitům - komerční fungovaly už tehdy ale rozhodně nesnímaly pořád tu samou oblast).


Co se různých rozlišení na GM/GE týče, je to dáno zejména zájmem o danou oblast. Většina ČR je dostupná jen v malém rozlišení, třeba i mé milované Kladno, znamená to že tady u nás je tajná vojenská základna? Wink


Ale dost už, rytí do konspiračních teoretiků a záhadologů je mé oblíbené hobby (hlavně kvůli tomu že kdyby do nich nikdo neryl, mohl by je náhodný čtenář brát i vážně což na tomto fóru moc nehrozí). Smile
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Aubi já docela věřím že ta rozdílnost existuje - důvody proč tato mohla vzniknout jsem popsal výše , rozhodně bych za tím nehledal globální spiknutí. Smile


Jinak tady máš tu svojí slepičárnu v lepším rozlišení i z ukázkou dalšího zvětšení. Je to z poslední verze volně dostupné aplikace GE
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262006 Version : 0

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inu dobrá vyhráls,máš bod Very Happy
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262008 Version : 0

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Citace - marektucan :

"Téměř opuštěné Arwa 51"? Samozřejmě, v porovnání s lety Studené války je základna Groom Lake podstatně méně zalidněná, možná i proto že se teď nevyvíjí tolik přísně tajných letounů (není ani moc důvod), samozřejmě že když tam třeba Northrop a Lockheed zkoušely prototypy "nového bombardéru" (vyhrál B-2 od Northropů), byl tam podstatně větší provoz (a na ranvejích bys tam nenašel nic moc, vše se pečlivě uklízelo kvůli Ruským satelitům - komerční fungovaly už tehdy ale rozhodně nesnímaly pořád tu samou oblast).


Co se různých rozlišení na GM/GE týče, je to dáno zejména zájmem o danou oblast. Většina ČR je dostupná jen v malém rozlišení, třeba i mé milované Kladno, znamená to že tady u nás je tajná vojenská základna? Wink


Ale dost už, rytí do konspiračních teoretiků a záhadologů je mé oblíbené hobby (hlavně kvůli tomu že kdyby do nich nikdo neryl, mohl by je náhodný čtenář brát i vážně což na tomto fóru moc nehrozí). Smile

v čr chcíp pes a v area51 slepice ...


..pravděpodobně v čr nebudou bloklý místa na mapě ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262010 Version : 0

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Dave, máš pravdu, měl jsem připsat "a které se nedá vysvětlit vyjmutím leteckých snímků". Ale vlastně zmiňuju přímo retušování, takže to je jedno.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262012 Version : 0

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A kterážeto bloklá místa na mapě? To jsi ještě pořád nějak nedoložil, i ty tvé Alice Springs tam jsou Very Happy
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To marektucan : už jej nechte myslím že uznal, že co se týká satelitních snímků vedeme 1:0 - to jak prohlásil že mám bod totiž nepočítám za svojí zásluhu ale za zásluhu Buka a Aubiho , já už přišel k hotovému.
A upřímně ani mě ten bod netěší, protože boj proti teoriím o globálním spiknutí a podobným nesmyslům je to samé jako boj s větrnými mlýny , ten má občas aspoň nějakou cenu, tohle byla vlastně jen přehlídka utraceného času.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262020 Version : 0

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O "bloklých místech" se zmiňoval i potom v reaksci na můj příspěvek, ale souhlasím, je to marné, i když zkusit se to vždy musí - občas se najdou lidé co nejsou "věřící" ale jen nikdy nepotkali reálné informace o dané události (často je to tak s teoriemi o 11. září, realita je tak fádní, nudná a je pro ni potřeba najít si nebo znát pár technických záležitostí, spiknutí vypadají záživněji;)).
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262023 Version : 0

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Mě se líbí poslední dobou jak zastánci těchto teorií poukazují na různé dokumenty televizních společnosti . Přitom ovšem zapomínají na jednu věc i tyto dokumenty vznikají za peníze a lidé v nich vystupující jsou buď opravdoví nadšenci , nebo zaměstnanci firmy, která má na natočení daného díla zájem a nebo jsou televizní stanicí za učinkování v tomto pořadu přímo placeni.
A jak to vidím já tak pokud to dostanu nařízeno zaměstnavatelem nebo za to od tel.společnosti dostanu zaplaceno, tak klidně budu tvrdit že jsem potkal létající z hákovým křížem, pilotovaný Goringem a copilota mu dělal Himler a oboum bylo asi tak 35let . Hlavně že dostanu své 2 minuty slávy a nějaký ten dolar.

No to už jsme hodně off topic , takže zpět k Chebu a podzemní továrně.
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No odkazy na pořady v TV, což je obtížně doložitelné, jsou dost mimo, jednak "viděl jsemto na XY kanále asi před půl rokem" je o ničem, má to asi takovou vypovídací hodnotu jako bych uvedl že za všecko můžou trpaslíci a že na to věřím protože jsem viděl film o sněhurce. Navíc úroveň "dokumentů" rapidně klesá (nebo aspoň těch které občas vídám), autoři začínají uvádět "hrané dokumenty )což je celkem cudně jen mezi řečí zmíněno že "dokument obsahuje hrané ukázky" a následuje v podstatě jen právě to hrané jen minimálně prostřihnuto někým kdo možná je věci znalý, leč z prostřihů nejde poznat co vlastně chtěl říci. Problém je že TV reportéři obvykle očekávají na svou (většinou stupidní) otázku krátkou odpověď, to ale v případě problému obvykle nejde, takže odborník se jim pokusí cosi vysvětlit, následně to je sestřiháno (stopáž je daná a "hrané ukázky" to zaplní líp a snáz se do toho střihne reklama na plínky, jogurt a prací prášek (toho odborníka by poslouchalo mnohem míň lidí než civí na hrané nesmysly), takže je z toho paskvil. A pokud je v TV "velké spiknutí" je to mnohem větší tahák než prostě konstatovat že je to prostě šlendrián někoho kdo měl udělat to nebo ono. Bohužel to využívá toho že lidé jsou líní myslet a porovnat si blábol vejra na obrazovce s realito je nenapadne. Před nedávnem byl na ČT rozběhnut pořad kde se věnovala tahle "veřejnoprávní" TV právě různým záhadám, Tunguzský meteorit, Filadelfský incident a podobné "záhady. Měl jsem tu smůlu že jsem právě ten "incident sledoval, takovou snůšku nesmyslů bych asi dohromady nedal kdyby na tom závisel můj život. Bláboly o křižníku který má své webové stránky jako každá větší loď, kdy si dementi z TV nedali tu práci ani zjistit data a vyprávěli o tom jak byl viděn kdesi a zase zmizel, v době kdy byl spolu se skupinou lodí na hlídce cca 1000km daleko, o námořnících proniknutých pancířem lodi a podobné završilo že osud lodi je nejasný, to bylo vrcholné, protože křižník byl po válce v padesátých letech prodán do řecka, prostě jen blábol o ničem kde když byl odborník který se snažil cosi vysvětlit byl "ustřižen" a následoval dementní redaktor nebo jakýsi "záhadista" žvanící cosi o pátém rozměru, magnetizmu (křižník byl jako většina lodí té doby demagnetizován kvůli minám a torpédům) a dalších věcech. No prostě nádhera, jistě se najde někdo kdo to může uvádět jako "dokument" tak to bylo i uváděno, naštěstí díky žalobě kterou podalo několik lidí co tam vystupovali (za překroucení jejich slov a tím poškození reputace) ten paskvil ČT musela stáhnout.
Osobně bych se přimlouval aby byl podobný "důkaz" přípustný pouze tehdy je-li daný pořad dostupný (třeba na netu) jinak klidně budu tvrdit že při rozhovoru s pamětníkem jsem se dozvěděl že měl Wernera von Braun zamčeného ve sklepě a američani si odvezli dvojníka (hodnota bude tak asi stejná.
Bláboly záhadistů (to že si sami říkají záhadologové je spíše urážka řeckého logos a je to docela neoprávněné) mne v poslední době docela otravují. Lidé bez trochy soudnosti vytahují věci které byly mnohokrát jasně a zřetelně vysvětleny, snaží se je hájit "a co když aspoň špetka je pravda" což je nesmysl, buď je daná věc reálná a pak nejde o "špetku" nebo není a pak platí totéž, stejně jako nejde být tak trochu těhotná nemůže být něco "tak trochu záhada" Buď je to záhada protože se pro to nenašlo vysvětlení v mezi dnešních znalostí, nebo to vysvětlení existuje a pak to prostě záhada není. Po pravdě základna v Antarktidě je nebetyčná hloupost, logisticky je to věc neudržitelná a v době války bez šance na utajení. Téma by patřilo do archivu aby opět za pár měsíců neběžela další podobně "plodná" diskuze s někým kdo sice nemá důkazy ale má přesvědčení.
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Já bych to tu nechal - až nějaký podobný doveda bude opět poukazovat na cenzuru satelitních snímků v GE , tak jej pouze odkážeme sem a ne že opět zdlouhavě budeme vysvětlovat vše znova.
Docela mě to přivádí k zamyšlení a sepsání nějakého kratšího článku o tvorbě georeferencovaných snímků (ať už družicových nebo leteckých) a jejich využití v některých odvětvích lidské činnosti - literaturu bych měl v knihovně svého kůrkodárce rozhodně objevit.
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Dave, to je rozhodně dobrý nápad, alespoň by z téhle hloupé debaty vyplynulo něco užitečného.
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No pokud sepíšeš článek, pak bychom tohle klidně vykopnout mohli, všimni si že celkem pravidelně se najde nějaký zoufalec který to vezme vážně a než by se obtěžoval čtením toho co tu je rovnou sem hodí "objev" a je tu další diskuze. Kdybych místo dopisování si o blbinách vypil litřík červeného byl bych na tom líp Smile Po pravdě pokud ten článek sepíšeš bude to první rozumná věc co z těch 7 stránek vypadne, že bychom přesvědčili některého ze zažraných záhadistů moc nevěřím.
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Zažrance to asi nepřesvědčí (už proto že pokud bude dav vypadat že tomu rozumí, je to určitě jen proto že ho řídí Oni a Oni mu řekli co má napsat Wink) ale kupříkladu já bych si to se zájmem přečetl, protože je to pro mne víceméně španělská vesnice, i když nesmírně zajímavá.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#262196 Version : 0

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No tak dobrá tak já něco sesmolím (šéf už se stejně zavázal k odporné konzultaci). Jen doufám, že to nebude pro lidi moc nesrozumitelné.


Krom tedy základních pojmů a historie bude asi potřeba poukázat na to kde všude se fotogrammetrie využívá a hlavně kdo všechno se podílí na získávání podkladů ( tady to omezím jen na družicovou fotogrammetrii - protože pozemní a leteckou může dnes provozovat kdokoliv nebo někdo úplně jinej.)
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Nejen může Smile i provozuje (dokonce i z větších modelů) Smile třeba pro archeology se to pokud vím leckde používá, je to levná a celkem solidně účinná metoda.
Ale pokud bys udělal něco kolem správných názvů, avysvětlení co proč a jak určitě by to mnohým z nás docela pomohlo (mně určitě)
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en.wikipedia.org
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Četl jsem několik příspěvků o Chebské podzemní továrně na letišti, kde hovoří o tom, že tam v podstatě nic nebylo, jen nějaké podzemní nádrže atd.
S tímto tvrzením nesouhlasím. Pracoval jsem v s panem W. Silbermannem /němec/ za války zde jako němec pracoval. /byl postižený a tak nemusel na frontu/Který v této továrně pracoval. Jednalo se o dílny na opravu letadel. Hovořil o tom, že i oni jako němci, kteří zde byli, museli nosit na monterkách označení do které haly patří a do jiné nesměli. To bylo přísně zakázáno pod trestem vězení. O výrobě, která zde byla v jiných halách, kde nepracoval asi nic nevěděl a nebo nechtěl hovořit. Vždy převedl hovor na něco jiného.
Také můj otec, který byl po válce v Aši od listopadu 1945 kde měl kovodílnu, hovořil o tom, že na Chebské letiště jezdil nakupovat materiál (plechy, profila a pod. Sklady byly v podzemí a v té době je hlídali vojáci. Pravděpodobně Američané a Poláci.
Jinak i v pozdější době zde v Chebu byla památka na výrobu Mesrschmitu M 262, protože ještě v roce 1962-1963 byla v hale zdejší Učňovské školy Komenského sady byl na podastvci proudový motor do tohoto letadla. Ten jsem sám viděl, protože jsem školu navštěvoval.
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Jj Honzamil ma pravdu tovarna tam je a vchod do ni je zazdenej udelal jsem foto z googlu a zakrouzkoval jsem ho na mape (stahnete si foto z ulozto) Jsem mistni narodil sem se v Chebu a mista jsem mockrat prokrizoval Cool


FOTO1: http://www.ulozto.cz/4204796/letiste-cheb-1.jpg
FOTO2: http://www.ulozto.cz/4204845/cheb-letiste-2.jpg


Letiste bylo za války dost rozlehle, testoval a montoval se tam Me 262 i kdyz tovarna patrila firme Heinkel (meli narizeno montovat i konkurencni stroje) Na podporu mojeho tvrzeni davam odkaz na foto z bombardovani letiste a nadrazi v Chebu jsou tam patrne znicene Me 262 a hromady kridel a dalsiho vybaveni.Laughing



www.fronta.cz


Ale nevidim to jako nejakou senza vec. Ted to je zatopene a vali se tam hromady srotu a proc hledat nekde pod vodou srot kdyz v muzeu stoji Me 262 skoro letu schopnej stroj Very Happy
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Načo dávať fotky a pracne sťahovať z ulož.to (a iných free úložísk) keď stačí dať zemepisné súradnice - tzv. vchod: 50°03'45.21"N, 12°23'43.07"E
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Citace - buko1 :

Načo dávať fotky a pracne sťahovať z ulož.to (a iných free úložísk) keď stačí dať zemepisné súradnice - tzv. vchod: 50°03'45.21"N, 12°23'43.07"E

A co je na tom špatné?
Já jsem za odkazy od AtmoXe rád...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#354335 Version : 0

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Napr. to, že po zadaní súradníc mi okamžite maps.google (ale aj iný mapový server) zobrazí to, čo si inak musím manuálne stiahnuť z uloz.to. To je zbytočná práca, pretože tam mám len statický obrázok, bez možnosti čokoľvek ďalšie s ním bez súradníc robiť.
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Citace - buko1 :

Napr. to, že po zadaní súradníc mi okamžite maps.google (ale aj iný mapový server) zobrazí to, čo si inak musím manuálne stiahnuť z uloz.to. To je zbytočná práca, pretože tam mám len statický obrázok, bez možnosti čokoľvek ďalšie s ním bez súradníc robiť.

V tom máte samozřejmě pravdu, ale pak bychom po otevření neviděli doplňující údaje, které autor příspěvku do jednotlivých fotomap červeně zakreslil. Opravte mě, pokud se mýlím?
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O tom sa nehádam, ale napr. mnou dané súradnice priamo označujú údajný vchod do podzemia (teda to, čo autor zakrúžkoval červene). Naviac pokiaľ sa vkladajú upravené obrázky, ďaleko jednoduchšie ich je vložiť priamo do príspevku ako prílohu, nie cez externý server.
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Se zájmem jsem si pročetl diskuzi k tomuto tématu a nestačím se divit, kam až jste se z Chebu dostali. Na severní pól, do Austrálie, Area 51 a zase zpět do Chebu Very Happy
Divím se, že si ještě dneska někdo myslí, že pod letištěm byla nějaká tajná továrna nebo co. Jsem z Chebu a řeči o podzemní továrně jsem slýchával v různých verzích a ty verze postupně gradovaly. A vždycky to bylo ve stylu "já jsem slyšel", "někdo mi říkal", "kamarád to ví jistě" apod. Prostě klasické hospodské kecy.
V knížce "Chebská křídla" od L. Matějíčka je to myslím si dost jasně vysvětleno, co bylo pod zemí. Nádrže, kanceláře, kryty apod. Žádná třípodlažní továrna. Autor našel v Německu i dosud žijícího pracovníka továrny, který mu to potvrdil. Navíc proběhlo měření georadarem, které tuto informaci také potvrdilo.
Co se týče údajného vstupu do podzemí, který má být na leteckém snímku, tak se ve skutečnosti jedná o konstrukci valu kde se zkoušely palubní zbraně letounů, viz přiložená fotka. Doporučuji se na letiště zajet podívat.


Ve starších přízpěvcích se objevila fotka jakéhosi zazděného oblouku mostu pod železnicí, který je vydávan za vstup do podzemí (GPS souřadnice 50°03'32.379"N, 12°23'08.194"E ). Tento most se nachází cca 500 m vzdušnou čarou od bývalé továrny. Vlastní zazdění otvoru proběhlo až v 90. letech, takže skoro 50 let od konce války to bylo otevřené, to by si toho asi někdo všiml, kdyby to někam vedlo do podzemní. Na fotografii není vidět, že před otvorem je jakýsi dolík, žádné velké prostranství, které by muselo být před vjezdem do něčeho jako podzemní továrna. Navíc k tomuto místu nevede žádná pořádná cesta, pouze nezpevněná cesta k chatové kolinii, která končí cca 100 m odtud, dál už vede jen vyšlapaná cestička. Takže zase nic.


Me 262 se v letecké továrně opravdu vyskytovaly, upravovaly se totiž ze stíhacích na průzkumné verze, pomocí konverzních sad, které byly dodávány od výrobce.


Nevím zda si to zastánci konspirační teorie uvědomují, ale postavit takovou podzemní továrnu není jen tak. Stavba takového rozsahu se jen tak neutají, jedná se o obrovský rozsah hlavně zemních a betonářských prací. Továrna a letiště se budovaly na začátku války, kdy Říše vítězila na všech frontách a podzemní továrny nebyly potřeba, ani na území Německa ani v Sudetech. Ve chvíli kdy už potřeba byly a začalo se s jejich stavbou jinde, tak se většinou nestihly dostavět, natož dokomale zamaskovat a po válce se o nich vědělo. Někdo je totiž musel postavit a někdo tam musel pracovat. A všechny Němci postřílet nestihli.
Podívejte se jak dopadla výstavba německých podzemních továren, např. v kopci Walpesberg - podzemní továrna na Me 262 se startovací dráhou na vrcholu kopce:


http://www.thirdreichruins.com/thuringen.htm


Nestihla se dostavět a zůstalo tam do dneška spousta zbytků ze stavby.


Proto si myslím, že pod letištěm žádná továrna není, jen již zmíněné nádrže atd. Ale kdo si chce dál snít ať si sní, jen ať tím prosím nekrmí druhé.
Podzemní továrna v Chebu - Val na zastřelování zbraní, foceno v roce 2005, zdroj www.modelari-cheb.valka.cz

Val na zastřelování zbraní, foceno v roce 2005, zdroj www.modelari-cheb.valka.cz
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Souhlasím s tím, že na uvedených souřadnicích je val určený pro zkoušky palubních zbraní. Pokud jde o fotografii tunelu, kterou jsem vložil v jednom z prvních příspěvků, jasně jsem tam napsal, že nevím, co tam je.... Rozhodně jsem ten tunel nevydával za hlavní vstup do podzemí, jen jsem reagoval na predchozí příspěvek, že pod letištěm jsou pouze tunely určené k odmrazování plochy. Zmíněný most je po rekonstrukci tratě zcela zasypán, nicméně při zmíněné rekonstrukci se na druhé straně zhruba v ose tunelu objevila díra, vedoucí do dutiny za mostem. Napadá mne otázka proč je zde postaven most, když výška terénu na druhé straně je v urovni tratě... A znovu zdůrazňuji že netvrdím že to vede do čtyřpodlažní podzemní továrny... Jen mne prostě zajímá, co to tam je.. Tedy spíš co to tam bylo, protože dotyčný most je zakryt železničním valem.. A pokud jde o to zazdění... Jsem ročník 1971 a kolem tohoto "mostu" jsme často chodili na chatu... Pokud by to bylo zazděno až v 90 letech, určitě bych tam jako kluk vlezl... Nepamatuji se, že by to bylo otevřené... Jinak pro úplnost... Šířka, odhadem, cca 3 metry, výška 5 až 6...
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http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zittwerke
http://lgp.org.pl/
www.bergwerkpunk.com
www.spiegel.de


Zdar, pocházím z trojmezí Čech, Německa, Polska a také se zajímám o tábory, válečnou výrobu, protiletecké kryty a spojené podzemní prostory končící závalem nebo zazděné kameny..
Problém jsou hranice, které brání v průzkumu celého komplexu výroby motoru Junkers Jumo 004B pro Me-262..
Z vyprávění prababičky před 17-ti lety jsem pozorně naslouchal jaký to byl hukot když motory v noci testovaly, že tu byli na návštěvě Josef Mengele, Wernher von Braun a vůdce tudy za války dvakrát projížděl a od té doby jsem chtěl vědět co se tu vše dělo..


Při bádání jsem narazil na informaci, že některé podzemní tajné výrobní prostory byli zakonzervovány metodou tzv. Gasschleuser (plyn co při kontaktu se vzduchem expanduje), dále jako těsnění vstupů je použita voda a řešeno je to formou sifonů které se dle polské strany nedají odčerpat a potápěč se tam pro rezavý kal rychle ztratí a nic nevidí..Odčerpání je možné až při uzavření jakého si ventilu..
Zittwerke má vstupy do podzemí údajně čtyři, ale není uvedeno ve které zemi jsou, dále veškeré povrchové pozůstatky budov po válce byli likvidovány z důvodu hraničního pásma..
Bohužel se chystá bourání i zdejší historické části továrny Spreewerk spojené s výrobou Walhter P.38..
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#490777 Version : 0

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Citace - buko1 :

Načo dávať fotky a pracne sťahovať z ulož.to (a iných free úložísk) keď stačí dať zemepisné súradnice - tzv. vchod: 50°03'45.21"N, 12°23'43.07"E

To není vchod, ale místo, kde se provádělo seřizování leteckých kulometů. Je to betonová zeď kde kulomety zastřelovaly Smile
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#499067 Version : 0

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Přátelé,
kolem chebského letiště a jeho podzemí toho bylo napsáno a navymýšleno něúrekom Smile. Nehodlám zde tvořit další teorii, jen bych rád podotkl, že právě v těchto dnech proběhl v Chebu slavnostní křest nové knihy o chebském letišti a leteckém provozu zde obecně, kde je spousta nových dosud nepublikovaných fotek a pamětnických povídání a tak. Autor,který má za sebou řadu knih na toto téma - např. publikace Chebská křídla, se snaží o vcelku objektivní a nedryjáčnický pohled na věc. Doporučuji.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#499072 Version : 0

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http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskuse:Haunebu


Osobně se domnívám, že Haunebu využívá revolučního způsobu "vcucnutí" do časově omezeného vakua nad tímto diskem (to je důvod, proč má tento letoun tvar disku, aby byl tok vzdušných proudů rozložen rovnoměrně). Dle mého názoru je využit stejný princip, který lze najít i v přírodě (viz. Viktor Schauberger), tedy tornáda. Haunebu obsahuje dva rotory, horní a spodní, které od sebe odděluje deska, a pouze po obvodu této desky je úzká štěrbina, kudy je vháněn těmito rotory vzduch ven tak, aby spodní rotor, vhánějící ohřátý vzduch foukal vzduch proti spodní poklici a štěrbinou proti ochlazenému vzduchu od horního rotoru, který ochlazený vzduch stejnou štěrbinou žene proti větší, horní poklici. Rotory se otáčí každý v jiném směru, což je klíčový moment, při kterém vznikají dva protichůdné vzdušné proudy, každý s rozdílnou teplotou. Obě poklice mají na svém vrcholu (spodní poklice je otočena vzhůru nohama) otvory pro nasávání vzduchu. V konečném momentě jsou tyto dva proudy hnány ven z Haunebu stěnou větší poklice směrem dolů (ve tvaru obráceného trychtýře). Srážením dvou opačně postavených vzdušných proudů, jenž mají odlišnou teplotu (spodní je horký, vrchní je studený), vzniká vzdušný vír s obrovskou rotací, který v podstatě odsaje vzduch nad Haunebu, k tzv. podtlaku, a dochází tak k opačnému efektu, který se využívá u dnešních běžných letadel, tedy vztlaku, kdy se mění rychlost proudění vzduchu na horní a spodní straně křídla. Rozdíl mezi těmito dvěma způsoby spočívá v tom, že běžná letadla využívající vztlaku se musí potýkat s odporem vzduchu na naběhové straně křídla. U Haunebu tomu tak není, neboť je doslova vcucnuto do krátkodobého vzduchoprázdna nad ním, které je neustále obnovováno. Lze jej taky poměrně snadno řídit, a to pomocí odtokových hran vrchní poklice (což je patentováno i u Avrocaru - doufám že to píši správně...). Ohledně pověstné rychlosti létajících talířů bych rád podotknul, že zatímco laik mluví o "závratné rychlosti", já hovořím o "závratné akceleraci" tohoto efektu se zachováním zcela standardní rychlosti, jako u běžných letadel. To je také důvod, proč byla tato zařízení vyvinuta, a zcela určitě zůstanou utajena, neboť tato vysoká akcelerace je klíčová (nebo ještě nedávno byla) při leteckých soubojích, kdy je v takovém případě velice těžké zaměřit protivníka. Otázkou, je, čím byly rotory podobné mlýnským kolům poháněny... Jan Rippl
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Podzemni-tovarna-v-Chebu-t28959#502455 Version : 0
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