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Českoslovenští zajatci po válce v SSSR :: World War Two :: Wars

Display link [ Funkce ]  [ hambac
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Recently I discovered the forum axishistory.com Post a Russian who claimed that after the war was in the USSR 69,977 prisoners of the Czechoslovak nation and defended the fact that it could be Volksdeutsche or similar crap.

Do you think there is some truth?

Tdy SOU sources from which he drew:
http://www.rosbalt.ru/2005/05/11/207912.html
http://www.kstu.edu.ru/military/magazine/N6/html/2_8.asp
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I believed it (but please not characterized with no dependents and ethnicity as "junk"), because the Czechoslovak people were among the Ruthenians of the breakaway Ruthenia, and the other prisoners still in time of war. Further details will be found about the new book from the Gulag Libri Czechoslovaks and Czechoslovak diplomacy 1945-1953 which I have now to review, and so it is to wade through, so I hope I will be able to give more information!
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in the spring is not written - as in 1945, but during the war.
If you zaspekuluji what is to count it would probably be the way I'm approaching that number.
1939 - fell in the invasion of Poland into Soviet captivity, most of the MS. legion.
1941-1944 Slovaks captured in action on the Eastern Front (inferred that the relevant sources are not mentioned as a separate nationality - were therefore likely to be counted as Czechoslovaks)
1944 to 1945 when he rolled in front of our territory and began with the cleaning of the Hlinka Guard members, collaborators, the Czech fascists, the Gestapo informers and helpers, past the Whites who had MS. citizenship and their families + some others in the class action treatment of Ruthenia by priests, intellectuals and former members of western Czechoslovakia. units. Total confusing situation even though to the arrest / capture the contribution of the MS. units and offices and most of them was directed by Soviet troops and accounting for the emigrants carried out by the NKVD.
A few members joined the Wehrmacht MS. origin, or forced labor, operating in Flakhelfers uniforms and firefighters who take off on time are insufficient, or denounced neighbors.

It could be a likely source might be credited to them civilians MS. arrests within the pre-war purges within the špionománie were foreigners (see the victims read between the MS. emigrujícími Communists to Moscow), but that is speculation, because a similar analysis of the Russian sources do not discuss the details.
Personally, I still seem to almost 70,000 as a high number but it can not be excluded.
Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Dav
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You're forgetting the area of ​​Volhynia by the Soviets after the annexation of 39 too pretty depopulated and where was the very strong Czech minority.
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as in the above book, this number is also listed as being the only Soviet / Russian archival sources, and it writes Schlang, for the entire duration of the war to end, so that all our soldiers who passed through Soviet gulags, and many civilians ...
Sudetski nemci ako vojnovi zajatci v ZSSRDisplay link [ Funkce ]  [ Viktor
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Thanks Hambac a good link to study "Vražeskije vojennopľennyje in the USSR (1941-45)" (hostile prisoners in the USSR (1941-45). Contrary to the first line of a newspaper article was that second link to the professional level. The data included therein I compared with those in the book FGKrivošejeva "Rossiya i 20.veka wars in the USSR (Russia and the Soviet Union in the wars of the 20th century), whose latest edition appeared in 2001 in Moscow. Archives, to working on this book clearly identifies 69,977 "Citizens of Czechoslovakia" as captives of the Wehrmacht, the Waffen SS and other ingredients (eg Volksturm, Organisation Todt).

These are the archives for the Main Directorate of the NKVD prisoners of war and internees (UPVI NKVD USSR), which were processed after the end of World War II. The tables show that in the prison camps were members of the Wehrmacht, the Waffen SS and other units divided by birth or permanent residence and accordingly has been designated by their nationality. These documents are already taking on the post-war borders in Europe, as designated by the conference in Yalta and Potsdam in 1945. Consequently, the German soldiers coming from the Sudetenland in Soviet statistics act as "citizens of Czechoslovakia. It is understandable that those that sign is not prevented, because it would increase their chances for an earlier repatriation of Soviet prison camps.

How to deal with these returnees behaved Czechoslovak authorities, already in Soviet statistics course is not captured. (These documents indicated that the 65,954 captives of Wehramchtu, Waffen SS and other units, who were identified as "Czechoslovak citizens, died in captivity of 4,023 people. The remaining 61,931 prisoners were gradually repatriated to Czechoslovakia). The answer to the question whether these returnees were subsequently deported to Germany, or whether some of them were allowed to remain in Czechoslovakia, requires research in the archives of our home. Does anyone know of such research? Its results would be quite interesting.

As for the conjecture that in this group were also captured members of the Army of the Slovak State, the resources available to deny. Slovak Red Army soldiers were captured in archival documents placed between the armed forces of countries OSI. According to Soviet historical materials in the years 1941-45 fell into captivity 5,200 Slovak soldiers, of which 300 died in prison camps. The greater part of the prisoners entered the Czechoslovak units in the Soviet Union and others after the war were gradually returned to Czechoslovakia. (All other persons from the territory of Czechoslovakia, who were arrested by Soviet authorities in the years 1939-41 and especially in the years 1944-45, not prisoners of war status and statistics for the main report NKVD prisoners of war and internees are not relevant to them).

PS For more info on the issue of German prisoners I threw the ( http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/41427 )
Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Michal Gelbič
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Unfortunately, I took the book to the CR and thus do not have it with me, so I recommend at least a source:

"Otkrytoe obšestvo" (Soros Fund) - Voennoplennye in the USSR 1939-1956
Logos, Moscow 2000
[Study publications of archival documents and materials relating to the residence of foreign detainees in the armies of the USSR in 1939-1956]

and out of that book are several translations of the data:

Report of the Head of Department 2 GUPVI NKVD USSR AN Bronnikova the deputy head of the NKVD USSR GUPVI NT Ratušného the number, ethnic composition and hodnostním POWs in camps GUPVI during the Great Patriotic War 1941-1945. June 27, 1945
[Selection of information: Summarization of prisoners of war 1941-1945, the number of redundant units, including the National Czechoslovaks captured the number of Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians on June 26, 1945]
http://www.czechpatriots.com/csmu/dokument8.php

Report GUPVI NKVD former prisoners of war the German army, freed from captivity and sent to the country and the formation of national units for January 2, 1947
[Selection of information: Statistics of Czechoslovak prisoners]
http://www.czechpatriots.com/csmu/dokument11.php

Report GUPVI NKVD USSR on former prisoners of war, European and Japanese armies to January 1, 1949
[Selection of information: detailed statistics Czechoslovak prisoners]
http://www.czechpatriots.com/csmu/dokument9.php
udaje k zajatcomDisplay link [ Funkce ]  [ Viktor
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Thanks for a very good web links!

It may be mentioned book "Prisoners of war in the USSR 1939-1956" found in electronic format on the Internet? I tried to find it through a couple vyhľadávačovm, but without success.
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I'd just like to add that not only ended the Czechoslovaks in Soviet captivity, but the western armies and soldiers after the war, went to the gulag reportedly up to 20,000 U.S. soldiers, Britain and France, who were "liberated" from German captivity in Eastern Europe!
Re: udaje k zajatcomDisplay link [ Funkce ]  [ Michal Gelbič
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Quote - Viktor:
It may be mentioned book "Prisoners of war in the USSR 1939-1956" found in electronic format on the Internet? I tried to find it through a couple vyhľadávačovm, but without success.


I'm afraid that will not be on the net. I do not know if you search in Cyrillic, so in each case the name of the original book: http://www.neocd.ru/showtov.asp?Cat_id=50575
Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Viktor
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This Gelbič Michal: Thanks for the link! Internet version of the book I was looking to <http://militera.lib.ru> but without success. Depending on what you wrote in your post, so it looks very interesting book. I will try to get it through their Russian friends. But if you should happen time and taste, so help me, here kebyže Throw some final statistics only German prisoners, but also other Allied prisoners of OSI. I compared it with data that I still managed to collect.
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Dear, do not forget the Czechoslovak citizens of Hungarian nationality and even Slovakia, which became the Vienna Arbitration defacto Hungarian citizens, and as such had to serve in the Hungarian army. I observe many INVOLUNTARY (!!!).
My grandfather (surname Mrva otherwise), as a member of the 26th Infantry Regiment of the Hungarian army fell into Russian (Soviet) captivity in December 1944 in the Romanian Carpathians. He returned from captivity in the autumn of 1946, after their camp was visited Czechoslovakia. Military Commission seeking citizens of Czechoslovakia.
Re:Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Viktor
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This topic deserves a separate discussion. There are relatively a lot of information about citizens of Czechoslovakia (in borders before September 1938), who subsequently became the German Reich citizens and among the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS fell into Soviet captivity. But so far I have not met with any statistics that would cover the former Czechoslovak citizens who entered the Vienna Arbitration Hungarian nationality and fought in the ranks of the Hungarian Royal Army. Someone somewhere has seen similar data?
Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Michal Rak
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Another example, when the citizens of Czech nationality had to serve in the German army, is the area of ​​the former Polish-German border. Here lived around the 18th century large Czech minority, along with Germans and others, after 1940 some of them had to join.
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To Victor:
Unfortunately with such detailed statistics I have not met since the southern part of Slovakia, which accrue to the Vienna Arbitration Hungary were attached to the original northern župám (eg, part of Rye Island is divided between two counties: Győr-Moson-Sopron and Komárom-Esztergom) and the drop statistics are shared with the county and these are not separated as such. in the case of Romania (obtained after the 2nd Vienna Award) and Yugoslav territory (annexed after the war with Yugoslavia in 1941), where they created a new county.
Just look, however, in most villages in Slovakia-Hungarian border at various monuments dedicated to fallen in 2.sv.vojne and you have an idea about the participation of citizens bývalích Czechoslovakia in the war in uniform of the Hungarian army.
Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Michal Gelbič
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Victor: So sorry, but I've already been there a long time, so I noticed your request. Sure, you prepare a statistical suck.

Alley: So, this issue but I would be really interested. Do you have a tip to the related literature? Impatiently await the release of the title "Hungarian Army" from publisher Our Troops http://www.czechpatriots.com/csmu/forum/viewtopic.php?p=253 # 253

Otherwise, the Czechs serving in the Wehrmacht, I read the following books: http://www.ivysehrad.cz/katalog.asp?id=1734
Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Michal Gelbič
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So here it is. I chose only those nationalities and from about 66 /, where the number of prisoners exceeded 100 thousand. people.
zajatci.JPG


Zpráva GUPVI NKVD SSSR o válečných zajatcích bývalých evropských a japonských armád k 01.01.1949

statistiky GUVPI NKVDDisplay link [ Funkce ]  [ Viktor
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This Gelbič Michal: Thanks! This final statistic is absolutely sufficient. You communicated the information I have compared with other sources, which also draw on Soviet documents. Again, it was confirmed that data on numbers of prisoners and their mortality rates in different sources differ, even though it refers to the archives for the Main Administration of NKVD prisoners of war and internees (GUPVI NKVD). With regard to German prisoners, and these resources allow the death of about 400,000 people, while other German and Russian sources speak of 2 to 2.2 million German prisoners of war who were killed shortly after the captivity, or killed during transport and deployment work. Currently working on preparing an article that compares the fate of Soviet soldiers captured by Germany and the fate of German soldiers captured by the Soviet Union. In addition to comparable statistics on the number of victims to be found there are other parallels, which demonstrates very similar to the methods of Nazi and Communist regimes in the issue of prisoners of war.
Display link [ Funkce ]  [ Viktor
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This Bočan: Maybe Hungarian military historians have published a comprehensive work on the loss of the Royal Hungarian Army during World War II, which would be referred to the statistics by districts in the mobilization of individual counties. Based on such data should already be at least in general terms to estimate the losses in territories which formerly belonged to Czechoslovakia in the years 1938/1939 were annexed to Hungary. I tried to surf the Hungarian internet, but my knowledge of the language is minimal, so to me on this subject failed to find any material.
Display linkNefaktografické : 01.04.2009 22:32:31 [ Funkce ]  [ Radim.ch
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I wonder if the Czechoslovak citizens especially in the area of ​​Teschen, who had to join the Polish army, and fell into Russian captivity (only in the Katyn massacre, they killed several dozen) were also included in the total number of prisoners of CSR in the USSR, and it automatically move up or under Polish jurisdiction.

 


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Step 8 - Functions

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V této oblasti najdete funkce, které odpovídají možnostem na dané stránce. Umožní vám příhlasit nebo odhlásit se ze sledování dané sekce či tématu, umožní založit nové téma apod.

Step 9 - Functions

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Kliknutím na tuto iconku si zobrazíte odkaz na konkrétní příspěvek, pokud jej třeba chcete sdílet dál.

Step 10 - Functions

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Zelená iconka indikuje, že příspěvek byl shlédnut moderátorem, nebo se jedná o diskusní (nemoderovaný) příspěvek.
Červená iconka indikuje, že příspěvek zatím nebyl shlédnut moderátorem, nebo se jedná o příspěvky staršího data, kdy tato povinnost neplatila.

Step 10 - Functions

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Funkce, které se váží k danému příspěvku. Jako nepřihlášený uživatel nemůžete dělat skoro nic, po přihlášení například odpovídat na příspěvek, citovat, upravovat svůj starší příspěvek apod.

Step 11 - Functions

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Najetím myši na jméno autora si zobrazíte informace o autorovi, datum vložení tohoto příspěvku a další zajímavé informace.

Step 12 - Functions

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Pole pro vkládání odpovědí k tématu. Menu VYHLEDAT a FORMATOVANI nabízí možnosti jak formátovat text (pro náhled před odesláním použijte tlačítko NAHLED, pro zvýraznění řídících značek "tagů" a rychlejší orientaci v textu tlačítko ZVYRAZNIT BBCODE TAGY). Pokud má daná sekce šablonu (předdefinovou šablonu pro unifikované vkládání dat, v podstatě "formulář"), pak se zobrazuje ještě třetí menu SABLONA.

Step 12 - Functions

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Kliknutím zde si zobrazíte pole pro vkládání až 5 příloh k příspěvku, například obrázků apod. Pokud se jedná o obecná témata, vyplňuje se jen soubor přílohy a popis, pokud se jedná o obrněná vozidla a letadla, vyplňuje se i řada dalších informací k dané příloze, pro snažší vyhledávání a provázání informací.

Step 13 - Chat

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Spodní lišta nabízí zejména možnost přímo se bavit s lidmi, kteří jsou právě také online na forum.valka.cz ! Můžete vyřídit rychlý dotaz, domluvit se na spolupráci nebo se pozdravit s přáteli ...

Translation tip

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Translation tip 2

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