I hope I use the right forum? While reading the posts in the uniform section, I came across a link linked to by one of the contributors. It is a page of a Dan, dealing with camouflage patterns of the armies of the world, including Czech and Czechoslovak. Among other things, the author reflects on the work uniform of the ACR vz.92. He writes, I quote: "This uniform is a bit of a mystery to me: why make a work uniform in a camouflage pattern? ....." or loosely translated "This uniform is a bit of a mystery to me: Why make a work uniform with a camouflage pattern? .... " I was quite interested, I wore it myself as a soldier, but it never occurred to me to think about it, it is true that we really wore it only at work, I never wore it during exercises (so once, when we practiced crossing the water flow, but only because we teased the company commander so that we do not have to soak camouflage). So why is it actually with a "camouflage" pattern? Do you know or suspect anything about it?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#248659
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A very interesting question, it can't even be a uniform, it doesn't have a nationality mark, so it's more of a work combo just overalls and done probably the plan could be that in the case of rear units it would be silly to fix things in camouflage and using for example blue overalls would not be kosher either, so they probably combined it like this
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#423981
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Reklama
Citace - Adean :
Very interesting question, it can't even be a uniform, it doesn't have a nationality mark, so it's more of a work combo just overalls and done in the plan, it could have been that in the case rear units would be stupid to fix in camouflage and to use blue overalls, for example, would not be kosher, so they probably combined it like this:)
Previous military overalls were not blue, but green and similar in shape. Rather, it seems that some companies are left with an otherwise unusable substance, so it has offered it to the army in a proven way. So what...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424040
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Citace - Adean :
Very interesting question, it can't even be a uniform, it doesn't have a nationality mark, so it's more of a work combo just overalls and done in the plan, it could have been that in the case rear units would be stupid to fix in camouflage and to use blue overalls, for example, would not be kosher, so they probably combined it like this:)
But the uniform is not a sign of nationality! This is an absolute delusion. The uniform is a designation of uniform clothing for people who belong to an organized group.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424042
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But it is not a uniform, because it would have to be the national emblem of the flag - otherwise, if one wore it, it could not be a combatant. That is why Czech SF units can use camouflage - Multicams in foreign operations, with the appropriate flag indicating nationality.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424047
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Citace - Karel Oktábec :
Citace - Adean :
very interesting question, it can't even be a uniform, it doesn't have a nationality mark, so it's more of a work combo just overalls and done v the plan could probably be that in the case of rear units it would be silly to fix things in camouflage and to use blue overalls, for example, it would not be kosher, so they probably combined it like this:)
Previous military overalls were not blue, but green and similar in shape. Rather, it seems that some companies have an otherwise unusable substance left, so it has offered it to the army in a proven way. No a ...: -)
The blue color was given as an example, I know that the overalls were green, with the motorized-tank units black "blacks" (very high quality and in demand).
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424048
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Citace - Adean :
But it's not a uniform, because it would have to be the national emblem of the flag - otherwise, if you wore it, it could not be a combatant. That is why Czech SF units can use camouflage - Multicams in foreign operations, with the appropriate flag indicating nationality-affiliation.[/Quote]
Naivety - whether or not someone wears a national flag on their clothes has no effect on combatant/non-combatant status. Under international humanitarian law, a combatant is any member of the armed forces and corps (whether a regular army, partisan movement, militia, militia, etc.) or a civilian who defends their homes - as long as they openly carry a weapon during the attack and its preparation. Combat members of the regular army are presumed to be wearing a uniform (but this is not an obligation). The distinguishing signs on the uniform that a state (organization) chooses depends on the state (it can be a flag, but it can also be just an inscription - for example, US AIR FORCE on camouflage!).
P. S .: The fact that the Americans ordered their soldiers to wear the American flag on their uniforms in 2003 (or 2004) in the fight against terrorism (increasing the already great patriotism) does not mean that it is a regulation valid for the whole world. Although their allies have adapted, it is only a visualization of nationality in international operations.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424052
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Citace - Adean :
But it's not a uniform, because it would have to be the national emblem of the flag - otherwise, if you wore it, it could not be a combatant. That is why Czech SF units can use camouflage - Multicams in foreign operations, with the appropriate flag indicating nationality-affiliation.[/Quote]
As buko1 wrote, the uniform does not have to be state. Uniforms of volunteer firefighters that are not marked with the state emblem, uniforms of railway workers, SBS and the like are also considered uniforms. Uniformity means belonging to a certain group with the same interests, ideology. In principle, this character is also fulfilled by the monk's habit, the uniform of the nurses ...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424054
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State emblem al. most British units resp. Comonwealth States.
For these units, the designation al. regiment emblem and not country.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424067
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Dear Sirs, according to my notes, the uniform vz. 92 introduced in the Czechoslovak Army. After the disintegration of the federation, the ACR took over the uniform and around 1995 reclassified it as a working uniform. Stejnokroj vz. 92 was used until stocks were exhausted. At present, the so-called army surpluses (in at least two shades) offer various butchers - Armyshops.
The uniform features a print that the "bad tongue" claimed to be particularly suitable for muddy terrain.
I do not know the ACR equipment regulations, but I assume that the run-out uniform, which was intended as a replacement for overalls, does not have to be equipped with army insignia.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424075
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Maybe it would be appropriate to combine this topic with this - CZE - Pracovní oděv vz.92 (especially info from JT). Both topics talk about the same thing.
P.S .: I do not know how in the Czech Republic, but in the Slovak Republic, the rank is also worn on work clothes (I think I have not seen a soldier in overalls for a long time). And this garment has space for the rank designation (which in my opinion is the basic distinguishing feature of a military uniform).
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424076
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One time the cap was on offer in the equipment stores, where I bought one for "points". We used it normally for overalls, it has a cut like the previous overalls cap with a visor. But the overalls probably fell into "fortune-telling" .
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424080
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Dear Sirs, Military Equipment 8521 published a document in AVIS, in 2006, entitled: Equipment of Czech Soldiers - catalog and useful information, from which it clearly states that the ACR does not know the "work uniform"!
On the other hand, it presents two versions of work clothes: Work suit 92 and Clothing 2005 for technical maintenance.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424116
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Citace - Adean :
But it is not a uniform, because it would have to have the national emblem of the flag on it - otherwise, if one wore it, it could not be a combatant. That is why Czech SF units can use camouflage - Multicams in foreign operations, with the appropriate flag indicating nationality-affiliation.[/Quote]
A part of the work uniform is a cap, the emblem of the Czech Republic is on it, the blouse has a rank designation - this clearly defines that it is a uniform.
Ad. canada vz. 90 Min. until 2005 (end of VZS) VZS soldiers used them, after all, many VZPs still use them.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424117
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Dear Sirs, we should probably distinguish between the armies of three states:
Army of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic ( CZK) - uniform vz.92, or uniform 92 (?)
Army of the Czech Republic ( CZE) - until 1995 uniform (!) - after 1995 work suit
I just don't know how it was, or still is, in Slovakia.
I ask for your opinion on the matter.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424118
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I don't want to argue and talk here, but as Jiří remarked, this is a uniform, not a uniform.
To Karaco: I am a former soldier and I know that there is a national emblem on the caps - the badge is stained, yes, the blouse has a place for rank insignia, but in my opinion it is not a uniform. You're right shoes model 90 were very good, unfortunately they can no longer be bought in the equipment warehouse and therefore the guidelines state (stupidity is great) that, for example, only ECWC shoes and vz. 2000 (I'm not saying everywhere).
To Buko1: I agree with what is written in your post, I do not know how to deal with you, I do not want to argue about humanitarian law, I will look on the Internet later, but I believe that the combatant is obliged to wear a military uniform or its parts and be marked by affiliation to the ground. You are not right about how you state the partisans - in their case they are nothing but terrorists of another time ... but we are already moving away from the topic of work clothes-uniforms vz. 92.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424129
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So the Uniform 63 is not actually a uniform either?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424135
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Maybe you should realize that "uniform" is a word of foreign origin, in Czech its translation is uniform. So the division into uniform and uniform is nonsense. And a uniform is anything that puts an individual into a group using some kind of markings (clothes) (for example, the staff at McDonalds), so the idea that some applique is taken off and it becomes a uniform is out, it's still the same, the uniform and uniform are words of the same meaning. And, for example, the uniform vz.60 had no distinction of affiliation. even so, it was a uniform.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424137
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Yes, that's what I was pointing out, uniform is originally a French word.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424139
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Citace - Adean :
You are not correct in your reference to the partisans - in their case they are nothing but terrorists of another time... but that's getting away from the subject of the vz.92 uniform
If you are a former soldier, you have gaps in your education - a soldier who does not know the difference between a guerrilla and a terrorist has one foot in front of an international war crimes tribunal in case of combat deployment - because regular armies today do not conduct military operations against terrorists (other security forces are used for that), but they conduct so-called COIN operations (Counter-insurgency) - translated as counter-insurgency operations. And insurgents (guerrillas in the old way) who themselves follow the principles of IHL are not terrorists under this law (this is just media hype).
But that's off this topic.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424142
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Citace - buko1 :
Citace - Adean :
You are not correct in your reference to partisans - in their case they are nothing but terrorists of another time... but that's getting away from the topic of the workwear-uniform of the vz.92
If you are a former soldier, you have gaps in your education - a soldier who does not know the difference between a guerrilla and a terrorist has one foot in front of the international war crimes tribunal in case of combat deployment - because regular armies today do not conduct military operations against terrorists (other security forces are used for that), but they conduct so-called COIN operations (Counter-insurgency) - translated as counter-insurgency operations. And insurgents (guerrillas in the old way) who themselves follow the principles of IHL are not terrorists under this law (this is just media hype).
But that's off topic
.
There is no point in arguing this, yes it is written in international law:
Armed Forces (AF) (Art. 43 I. DP) shall consist of all organized armed forces, groups and units which: - are under the command of a person responsible to the authority (government) of the belligerent - have an internal disciplinary system (which, inter alia, preserves the RU and other relevant international standards) If a Party includes public order or other forces in its OS, it shall inform the other Party
Note: OS therefore includes not only regular army, volunteer corps, but also e.g. guerrilla units
I don't know about you, but I have been in Afghanistan and Iraq and together it could be counted in years and not as logistical support, it is something else to respect the word combatant for units and components THAT RESPECT AND RECOGNIZE IHL AND ZC. Which none of these parties take into account, which is why to me a guerrilla who does not wear a uniform, does not visibly carry a weapon and by his actions attacks not only the military population and hides in the crowd is a type of terrorist. Maybe when you experience a shooting at your own vehicle from a crowd of civilians, then you will change your mind. But as you yourself stated it is a different matter. You certainly have more experience in this, which I respect, I'm not here to argue to learn and discuss, thanks to all involved for that.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424161
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For this is the same thing I claim.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424163
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I'm glad we're in agreement on that. Just for the record, it's not just SF units conducting search operations in our army
Okay so so far from the sources it looks like it is a work suit/uniform/uniform type
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424169
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For Buko1 and Adean:
Friends, so it swelled in a different direction than I expected. Therefore, I would like to consider the possibility of dividing this discussion into two topics connected with the subsequent move to the chapter "General".
Work clothes vs. uniform vz. 92 Combatant, guerrilla, mercenary and international conventions
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424170
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It's George: My fault, I caused it by the wrong wording and led the discussion in the wrong direction...
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424172
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For Adean: I'll take that as an agreement, now what my colleague and moderator buko1 has to say.
P. S.. A few extra words I write in SZ (private message).
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424180
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Personally, I have already pointed out that the second topic (factual) is also dedicated to this garment - CZE - Work suit vz.92 and it would be appropriate to merge them. As for the rest of the discussion on Kombatant et al., That can easily be erased - I think we've clarified everything.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#424205
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Hello, let me share here a link to a YouTube video about this uniform:
URL : https://www.valka.cz/Pracovni-uniforma-vz-92-t70541#725717
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