Identifikace

Hello,


I have these two pieces here, could anyone identify what it is? Thanks a lot )

The bullet from the projectile is difficult to determine without more precise dimensions, it seems to come from the First World War and if it is smaller, it could belong to some infantry or trench cannon.


The second object is the remnant of a time lighter. They were used for shrapnel missiles during the First World War and in shrapnel missiles and anti-aircraft cannons during the Second World War.
Are there any other inscriptions or marks on it?

Naturally, I'm sorry. The caliber of the first round is approximately 40 mm and the length is less than 13 cm.


On the second "rest of the timer" are two embossed inscriptions ...

The rest of the lighter first belongs to the Škoda 10cm howitzer vz. 14 or vz. 14/19 - was originally made for the R/U army and used in the Czechoslovak army in the interwar period, from which your item also comes (the weapon is of R/U origin, but the text is clearly from the interwar period). Further clarification will have to be sought in this direction.


Unfortunately, I can't handle the charge.

Determining the charge is very simple (even without dimensions ) We have already determined it several times. It is a charge for the M.15 trench cannon from the armament of the RU monarchy forum.valka.cz
The charge is quite typical and quite unmistakable

But then the bullets shown in the article will probably not be the bullets for this cannon
The cartridge case from Concorde looks to be cylindrical, while the cartridges in the photo from the article are obviously slightly "bottle-shaped"

The question is rather what is in the photo from the museum in Hungary. The designation of the ammunition is at 12 o'clock the letter GR, ie the designation of the manufacturer Georg Roth, at 6 o'clock the designation of the weapon for which the ammunition was intended (in one caliber the designation was not repeated, so there was only one weapon with the designation 1915 of the given caliber) at 3 o'clock is the last two digits of the year of manufacture (ie the year 1919) and the ninth is the letter S, here I do not know what the letter means, but if we use an analogy with other RU charges, it may be a designation of the modified charge. It is possible that the bullets were of more types, as well as the fact that the photo "from the museum" is something completely different, it slightly questions the designation that it is from the Bouda fortress, but the description is that it is a photo from Hungary.

It is also quite possible, as you write, that the ammunition in the photo in the Hungarian museum belongs to another weapon - it is a bit at odds with the photos from "Kubator" from the Heeresgeschichtliches Museum, Vienna, where photos 3 and 4 capture the same ammunition and its cartridge case is clearly "bottle-shaped", although the projectile is visibly shorter than in the photos from the Hungarian museum.
Is it possible for incorrect ammunition to be assigned to a weapon in both museums?
IMHO it is possible, the charge shown here could be considered correctly identified on the basis of the bottom stamp, which is not the case with the charges in the photos from the museums.


I believe that more weapons would be found with similar ammunition. Only in the British army did they exist during World War I. at least two types of weapons with similar ammunition:
- cartridge for Vickers 1pdr Mk.III - 37x69R with "bottle" cartridge
- cartridge for Vickers Crayford 1.59 "Q.F. Gun, Mk II - 40x79R with" cylindrical "cartridge


However, I have no overview in this area of weapons and ammunition, I am only marginally interested - and internet resources are also poor and unreliable (or I have not yet come across the right ones).

Možnost je ještě minimálně jedna, používat se mohly oby typy, celková délka se zdá pro oba stejná, oč je kratší nábojnice o to je zde delší střela. Otázkou ovšem je, zda střela do dané nábojnice patří. Co je rozhodně jednoznačné a jisté je RU původ (firma Georg Roth nedělala pro brity ) v RU námořnictvu byl zaveden (starší) kanon stejné ráže, takže jedna nebo druhá munice může pocházet i z něj

Taká možnosť tu je, samozrejme.


neviem, či je to len môj dojem, ale obdobie R/U, prvej svetovej vojny a prvej československej republiky je z hľadiska munície na českých a slovenských stránkach len málo zmapované. Pritom české a československé firmy patrili k významným výrobcom nielen zbraní, ale i munície a v medzivojnovom období v používala československá armáda pomerne pestrú zmes delostreleckých zbraní. Samotné zbrane sú zmapované celkom slušne knižne i na webe, o dosť horšie je to už s ich muníciou.

Ono to asi až tak nezmapované nebude, spíš je komunita zabývající se touto problematikou mimo to co známe a my. V Střeleckém magazínu i dalších časopisech se objevovaly docela zajímavé články s odkazy na obvykle německy psané zdroje, takže jde možná jen o jazykovou dostupnost. Upřímně pokud je to v němčině, je to třeba pro mne prakticky nedostupné a v angličtině nebo ruštině se tím celkem logicky zabývají spíš okrajově. Je jasné že náboje asi nemají takové množství příznivců jako zbraně, obdobně není pokud vím ani moc studií o vybavení vojáků (tedy polní lahve, nádobí a podobně) zřejmě ani zde není tolik sběratelů aby to vydalo na nějakou studii

Zdravím, našiel som podobný zapaľovač z 2.sv. vojny. Nevedel by mi niekto pomôcť s identifikáciou? Je tam označenie 84K14 ako je vidno na fotke. Vopred ďakujem.